OK, so I've gone out on a limb and made my views known. Anyone want to challenge me? Any women's officials want to stand shoulder to shoulder with me? Or is it me against the NCAA world?

<b>What’s Wrong with NCAA Women’s Mechanics? — Part I</b>

http://basketball.officiating.com/x/article/3122

Looking forward to your views.

Not being a member of rightsports.com, I can't read the entire article, but reading the first few paragraphs makes it sound like you have three big complaints:
1)Going tableside after a call
2)The fact that these mechanics don't match anyone else's, and so we have to learn new mechanics
3)and the fact that L has a big area to cover as they rotate...

Personally, I don't see any problem with any of these things...when I work an NCAA women's game, I use the proper floor coverage and mechanics, when I work something else I use their floor coverage and mechanics...I called fewer T's on coaches this year than any other because I was right there to discuss a call with them rather than having them yelling across the court...and while L has a large area to cover, the C and T know that and there is lots of help between the 3...

I'm not really sure what the point of your articles is...do you want Women and Men to use the same mechanics? Do you just want the Women's mechanics to go back to what they were several years ago? What? Help me understand your concerns a little better than what I could get in the first few paragraphs, please...

You never will know what the point of the article is,Rocky,unless you can read the whole thing.That's why there are no responses to this post.You can't comment properly on anything if you don't know what the heck you are supposed to be commenting on.

[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Mar 27th, 2003 at 01:06 PM]

Well, I did ask him to help me understand! :) Have you read it? Can you help me understand? Can anyone help me understand? Please??!!

Well, I'll tell you what I remember about it. Mr. Dixon actually doesn't oppose the table side mechanic and it's reasoning to make us better communicator's. One of his gripes and arguments, that I remember, is that most college officials work far more high school ball than they do college ball so they aren't proficient enough with the mechanics and spend too much energy thinking instead of reacting. This is just my paraphrasing, but I think it is fairly accurate and I'm not going to go read all three one page articles again, I have a hard enough time getting through his articles once.

I hope my article gets published that I sent to Jim. I stated alot of positives about the women's mechanics. I have been using them for years now and have gotten comfortable with them. I use some of the things learned in my HS games as well. I think that is one wants to become proficient at the mechanics, one must choose his/her place in officiating. Get enough college experience and stay there or stay in HS and get really good at that.

Well there are a lot of negatives if you are used to Men's Mechanics. I think that the Men's and NF overall mechanics are better. But all that is a matter of tastes.

Peace

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JRutledge

Quote:

[i] Well there are a lot of negatives if you are used to Men's Mechanics. I think that the Men's and NF overall mechanics are better. But all that is a matter of tastes. Peace

I can understand being more comfortable with the mechanice you use all the time and therefore thinking the mechanics you use are better mechanics. Since i started my career with NF/Mens, and now working womens, I am convinced the Women's Mechanics are better than Men's. Its not just the mechanics but also the training, and consistency of calling the game. I think the Women's side has done a better job of spelling out, what, when, where and how the game is to be called and there all three officials are on the same page. This also makes it better for the players and coaches. I see far more out of primary calls on the men's side than women's. Just one example is the "on the back call" from the "L". Men's call on the back from the L all the time. Women's side I will see a couple times a year and its from a less experienced official.

It is a personal choice.
 

No matter what you or I say, this is all personal preference. Nothing more, nothing less. I have done NF, NCAA Men's and Women's games. At the end of the day I like the Men's and NF mechanics as a whole. Men's coaches tend to be more confrontational, and going right to them after calling a foul can be a test in restraint on our part. The Women's coverage area does not work in the Men's game, mainly because the game under the post is much more physical. And the Women's rotation is also kind of ridiculous for the Men's game, because Men's and HS Boy's teams tend to skip pass much more, it is silly to rotate at the rate the Women's Mechanics do. But the mechanics as a whole fit the style and substance of each game. As I said, it comes down to what you like peronally.

Peace

I can live with what you say. I just had one question; isn't the women's mechanics the same as the NBA?

Yes
 

Yes. Another reason they do not traslate (in my opinion) to the college level. But most of the assignors and many officials are WNBA Officials. So they want to make the mechanics identical as possible. That is why the NCAA Men's has not adopted and probably will not adopt the NBA Mechanics.

Peace

Re: Yes
 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JRutledge

Quote:

[i] But most of the assignors and many officials are WNBA Officials. So they want to make the mechanics identical as possible. That is why the NCAA Men's has not adopted and probably will not adopt the NBA Mechanics. Peace

At first I thought the only reason the NCAA Women's went to NBA/WNBA mechanics was because of the WNBA officials wanted to use their mechanics to make it easy for themselves. I have since learned (in my opinion) the game is officiated better using the Women's mechanics. While i do believe there are a lot of great Men's officials, I also believe Men's side could improve their game by using the NBA mechanics. Please don't misunderstand, it not the officials, its the mechanics that need improvement.

Re: Re: Yes
 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bart Tyson

Quote:

Originally posted by JRutledge Quote: [i] But most of the assignors and many officials are WNBA Officials. So they want to make the mechanics identical as possible. That is why the NCAA Men's has not adopted and probably will not adopt the NBA Mechanics. Peace At first I thought the only reason the NCAA Women's went to NBA/WNBA mechanics was because of the WNBA officials wanted to use their mechanics to make it easy for themselves. I have since learned (in my opinion) the game is officiated better using the Women's mechanics. While i do believe there are a lot of great Men's officials, I also believe Men's side could improve their game by using the NBA mechanics. Please don't misunderstand, it not the officials, its the mechanics that need improvement.

Amen. I have said that it is the way the game is called more than the mechanics used. We in women's ball take a more proactive approach to the game (calling contact early) and it makes the game so much smoother!

Why is calling more contact necessarily better than not calling contact?

Does the contact provide an advantage/disadvantage situation?

Many men's officials might say that this is a PROBLEM with women's officiating.

I watched the Tennessee-Villanova game last night and there was lots of contact not called as fouls. Rightly so, I would add, in my opinion.

Rich

Then again you have some plays in the men's game that isn't called in the first 30 min of the game then it is called in the last 3. I am saying taking aproactive approach to calling contact can lower the potential for fouling situations. The men's game is WAY too physical and needs to be reeled in a little.

Like what? I guarantee you that a men's college pre-game includes the following: "If we see a handcheck [or off-ball, or 3-seconds, or swim stroke, etc.], grab it early. Because if we let it go in the first 35 minutes, we're going to have to live with it for the last 5".

And what sort of reason do you have for making that statement anyway? I'm not being critical, I'm just curious. I don't think it's all that common, personally. But when it happens, it's very possible that it just didn't happen in the first 30 minutes of the game. So they're grabbing the first one they see, it just comes at a big point in the game.

Perhaps, but you're raising the actual fouling situations.

I might argue with the word "WAY", but I think it probably is still too rough (nothing wrong with being physical). We're working on that. But I don't think using different mechanics will have any effect one way or another on rough play.

Chuck

I would agree with Chuck on the rough play aspect - the mechanics have nothing to do with that...that's a philosophy, not a mechanics, issue...having said that, I still absolutely HATE the way the L official calls across the paint in the men's game...time after time the C is standing there looking directly at the play on his side of the key, and all of the sudden the L comes out with a call!! That bugs me, but again - as Jrut said, that's because it's not what I am used to...not right or wrong, just what I'm used to...

Just an opinion.
 

Mechanics have very little to do with the way the game is "actually" called. It has more what makes since and what gives better coverage. The WNBA or NCAA Mechanics are a good fit for the NCAA Men's game, in my opinion. They want the Lead to cover things that do not fit the rules or the speed of the Men's game. See in the NBA, they do not have 5 second counts. The 3 Person in the Men's game was created so that the Lead could concentrate on post play. If you change to the NBA way, then you take that Lead away from the post play (which they have the best look at btw) and make them look at out of bounds plays and 3 point shots that will never be taken. The NBA can do that because there rules are different, their 3 point line is further out, the officials are full-time employees of the NBA, the review an extensive amount of video (the NBA gives every official a labtop and access to a secure website to review plays all over the league each night) and the rotation process in the WNBA and NCAA Women's does not fit because of the speed of skip passes and ball movement. I just do not think it fits.

Peace

Who in the game is complaining about the men's game being too physical?

Rich

How about the NCAA and many Coaches. Its only POE every year. As one coach says " its prety bad when BBall players have to spend more time in the weight room then on the court just to be able to handle the rough play".

I have to disagree.
 

I totally disagree with that. Coaches must not be complaining too much. They are the ones telling these kids to bulk up. Even when a guy moves to the next level, they tell them, they need to bulk up to hold their own. Bulking up is not to push people around, it is to hold your ground.

Peace

Just so I understand, you are saying the ncaa does not have a POE on rough play and you are also saying the coaches havn't been complaining. umm i guess my eyes and ears realy are going bad.

Yeah, and the FED has had some of the same POEs for years. I don't even need to see next year's book to guess what next year's will be.

But there are the same guys working year after year.

You just don't hear a lot of it in the papers and on TV. And when you do hear complaints about officiating, there's always the sour grapes aspect since it comes from the losing team.

I'm not saying there's a problem, but I am saying that the only thing being done to address this "problem" is lip service.

I like the physical play at the NCAA level. It's when it intrudes on my Tuesdays and Fridays that I don't like it as much.

Rich

I would like to offer my viewpoint to this topic, I work college womens basketball and I personally do not have a problem with the mechanics that we use. I think it is a good system when everybody on the crew takes care of their business and stays in their primary areas of court coverage. I do not see any problem with the womens college officiating system.

I agree with John. Too many times I see Men's officials calling all over the place (usually across the paint). Also, sometimes you see the men's officials get beat very badly back, then guess at a call. One example sticks out in my mind during a UK games last year. The official had barely broken the 28 ft mark on a breakout. The UK player stripped the ball clean and was called for a foul. No longer can we say "it looked like a foul". YOu have to be sure. The mechanics are designed to put the officials close enough to the action to see the plays and the womens mechanics are superior if you ask me and the people I work with and for. If you are too old and slow to get in position anymore(it happens to us all!), please take time to reevaulate and let some younger guys have a chance!

:-)~~~~~