Here's a game sitch from last night.

Team B is down by 4 in the 4th quarter, when with 1.7 seconds left,
B1 hits a 3 and is fouled. (don't ask me why A was EVEN defending the play):confused:

B1 makes the free throw, and game goes to overtime.
As both teams go to their benches, we notice a commotion, and the Coach of Team A is saying that #34B,has been playing
a good stretch of the 4th quarter with 5 fouls. (gotta love
parent score-keepers)

We handled it thusly.
We acknowledged that overtime WOULD be played. Assessed a technical which was shot by A1, then began OT using the resuming play procedure which allowed A to inbound the ball at midcourt.
By the way, game went to Double OT due to more mental infarctions by the A team. A FINALLY won in second OT.
Proper handling?
If not, feel free to pummel at will.:eek:
Drake

No technical foul should be assessed - this can only be penalized if discovered while the player is violating the rule.

Drake,
Assessed a technical for what?

R4-14-2: A player is officially disqualified and becomes bench personnel when the coach is notified by the official.

mick

Ok.:o

However, I can just imagine the Coach's reaction had we just bagged the "T". Not that I care.:p

Drake,
Yeah, I can understand why you did it, and it was probably "fair".
But, rules aside, even if we remember that #34B was in the game, can we show any proof, do we have positive knowledge, that he actually had 5 fouls as recorded by a poor scorekeeper?
'Tis a twisted web. :)
mick

That's a tough situation, but by rule the responses are correct...tell the irate coach he needs to have his own scorekeeper helping out in the future so it doesn't happen again!! The main problem, as I see it, will be shielding the volunteer scroekeeper from the wrath of the coach after you inform the coach there will be no T...

Mick,
The scorekeeper actually had #34B with 5 IN THE BOOK!
The other thing is that neither my partner or I,could remember 34 scoring any points!
Here's another twist.
#1A Probably had AT LEAST 6 fouls against him! We recalled
3 fouls against him in the first half (we could have been wrong,but definite 2) , and AT least three in 2nd 1/2 and 2 OT's.

So it looks like shady going's on for both sides.
And this wasn't even a Championship game!
(8th grade AAU)

Hmmmm, I don't believe I have ever used the terminology, "resuming play procedure", in that context.

Also, Mark Dexter stated that the player could only be penalized "while violating the rule"...True, if the player had been notified that he/she had 5 fouls and then continued to play (Flagrant T)...but, if the player had not been notified that he/she had 5 fouls...then NO T.

RD

By the way, let's change this rule. Go ahead, assess the "t", but then jump it up. Why penalize the offending team so severely?
Let's say we have a pre-game dunk. NF rules state that we begin the game with two free throws PLUS a mid-court throw in. Now let's say "A" inbounds the ball, shoots a successful 3, gets fouled, and makes the FT.
The pre-game dunk has now cost "B", 6 points.
Yeah, that's a fair penalty for a pre-game dunk!:rolleyes:

Huh? Have you been drinking some of ROMANO'S wine? :p

I don't see how the "successful 3" and a foul has anything to do with the pre-game dunk.

RD

The pregame dunk cost them two points and losing the tip. That's all. The next three is due to either a good play by the scoring team or poor defense by the pregame dunking team, and the last point is for fouling someone. I don't see any of these last 4 points as due to the dunk.

The last 4 points are the result of the OFFENDED team getting a throw in after shooting the FT's for the T.
6 points a direct result of a pre-game dunk!
Jump it up, maybe the other team gets the ball.

Last time I checked a team didn't get any points for a throw-in. :) But that's just the way I see it, Drake.
This is the same debate the NFL is currently having about their sudden-death OT. Some teams are saying that they are losing the game as a result of losing the coin flip.
Ever heard of playing defense? They pay those guys on the defensive side of the ball a lot of money too. So make a defensive play and stop them from scoring.

[Edited by Nevadaref on Mar 28th, 2003 at 04:49 AM]

:confused::confused::confused:

Let me rephrase that.
The offended team scored 4 points because of a play that resulted from possession due to the pre-game dunk.
(that's much clearer right?):rolleyes:;)

That I can happily agree with. Please see my edit to my above post.

Ever heard of playing defense? They pay those guys on the defensive side of the ball a lot of money too. So make a defensive play and stop them from scoring

I agree. However, there is constant talk about changing the NF technical foul rule to reflect the NCAA rule,(NBA as well, but only 1 shot instead of two) where play is resumed at POI, because "the penalty is too severe if we award two FT's plus posession." Even the NCAA resumes play with a Center jump ball after a pre-game dunk! Change the NF rule!

Why should we change a rule that every player, coach, and even most fans totally understand? They know the penalty before they dunk, yet they choose to dunk, and thus, choose the penalty. If they don't want the penalty, then they shouldn't dunk.

I agree with the Tech, just not doing away with the opening Jump. I guarantee most coaches, players and DEFINTELY fans, DON'T know they lose the right to jump as well.

You think the penalty is too severe? The rule was changed from 1 shot to 2 shots pus possession because the NFHS was concerned about unsporting behaviour,and they thought that an increased penalty would help stop it.Well,unsporting behaviour has been a POE for the last I-don't-know-how-many-years,including this past year-so the FED is obviously still concerned about it. It doesn't make much sense to lessen the penalty,if the FED is getting feedback that unsporting behaviour is still a general problem.The NCAA game and the FED game are two different worlds completely,anyway.

As I've stated before, I wouldn't mind at all if the Fed adopted the POI procedure for technical fouls. Having said that, the pregame dunk scenario is one where giving shots and possession has very very little impact on the game.

Giving the offended team the ball for a throw-in is no different from the offended team winning the tap; they get the ball and the other team gets the arrow. The same thing happens when you give them the ball for the throw-in after the technical free throws; they get the ball and the other team gets the arrow. Big deal.

In fact, there's a slight advantage for the team that got the T, b/c at least they get to set up the defensive scheme they want to use, instead of defending in transition off the tap.

Just my 2 cents.

Chuck