Why No Signal?
 

Since the forum is a little slow this week I thought I would pose a question:

Why do you think on the majority of traveling and offensive foul calls, the calling official does not give a signal to stop the clock??

I think officials feel the need to sell the call and the stop clock signal takes away from doing that.

Peace

Couple of reasons:

1. Sells a call better
2. At the major D-I and NBA level, they're using PTS so the clock's stopping automatically on the whistle
3. In reality, the clock is not being stopped with the hand signal but on the sound of the whistle.

Couple = 2. Just sayin'.:D

the majority?
 

Might depend on what area of the country. In our area it is expected that a hand/fist is used on all violations/fouls. Most who neglect to are usually those also doing college ball. Local supervisors emphasize using it and during the tournaments the state supervisors make it a major POE that all officials use the NFHS and not NCAA mechanics.

What calling official are you talking about?

I stop the clock. If you're in NC, Mark expects you to as well.

In HS ball, especially here in NC, like BadNews said, it is expected that you stop the clock with the appropriate signal. I see it in college ball. I have always stopped the clock, as it helps to slow down and avoid the blarge. But some officials do not, which I think comes down to the particular play happening fast and the official reacting in the same way which helps to sell it also.

My aren't you the traditionalist....

NCAA requires a stop clock signal in those situations, no?

Yes.

And, I disagree with the premise of the OP.

When I first started with some actual training, we were taught that on PC fouls, the hand behind the head WAS the stop clock signal.

We were taught, when you blow that whistle, you better have a hand up, a fist up, or two thumbs up.

Never really gave it much thought, but why have a "stop the clock" signal on violations? Is there any time the whistle itself doesn't stop the clock?

Say the push caused the travel. One official has a fist up & the other just gives the travel signal. Resume play...

I think without the stop clock signal prior to all fouls/violations we dont allow ourselves (HS & small college) an opportunity to discuss & get the play right in the case of conflicting calls.

That is a good reason...it gives a brief preliminary communication to your partner about the nature of the call you have.

Secondly, I know I've been in gyms so loud at the end of a close rivalry game that the scorer/timer just couldn't hear the whistle no matter how loud we blew it. The only thing they had to go on was the raising of our hand.

This is exactly why I hate going straight to the jump ball signal instead of putting my hand in the air first.

I don't know what's stopping officials from discussing a play even if one comes up with a travel/jump ball and the other a foul...in fact I've seen this scenario play out plenty of times. Get together...discuss the order of events...tell the coach one event happened before the other...continue on.

The only reason I can see for going hand straight up is possibly if the gym is real noisy...and to slow down an official that needs it.

Which looks better, two officials selling conflicting calls (foul vs travel, e.g.) or giving a stop clock signal which, on its own, doesn't actually tell you what they're calling or on who?

Depends...if a coach knows the difference between a fist up and a hand up (and a lot of them do the higher up you go), it doesn't matter because the coach is going to know you had different calls. Realistically I don't think a coach will be too mad either way if you get together and discuss what you have...either way because you got together, discussed the play, and worked to "get it right."

With just a fist/hand, the the coach doesn't know exactly which foul or violation is being indicated yet. I just think that the more you signal, the harder it is to go back and change it. Even if you get it right in the end, you've made it a bit more difficult to sell the next one.

I doubt the coach cares what type of violation it would have been...all he's thinking is he might be "screwed" out of a potential turnover or assessed a "phantom foul"...so in that case I don't think you've really made anything any harder/easier either way. And to be realistic, this situation is almost always a travel vs. foul or maybe held ball v. foul.

I think he's more likely to be upset once he sees a signal that clearly favors his team (a block if his team was on offense or a travel if his team is on defense) and thinks you already gave him the ball only to have it reversed.

Coaches do look for that preliminary signal, especially on a double whistle.

I've gone to this as well, for the same reason

What ???
 

In what mechanics rule set (NFHS, IAABO, NCAA-M, NCAA-W, FIBA, NBA) are you supposed to put your hand up before giving the a held ball signal?

You're not, at least FED and NCAA. That's his point -- it can cause a "double call" if one is signalling an held ball and the other a foul / violation. I dont' know that it's any different from one signalling a foul and the other a violation, though..

From my perspective, it's a bit easier to deal with some coaches if one ref has an open palm and one has a closed fist as opposed to a closed fist and a jump ball signal. Merely a matter of preference.

With all due respect, the FED signal to stop the clock for a jump/held ball is two thumbs up, nothing more.

Yes -- that's what I meant. I'll edit.

No Blind Jokes, Please ...
 

IAABO also.