i am looking for tips or procedures officials use to help them identify and remember who the shooter is after a foul. Also, how to be more aware of a team approaching the bonus situation.

First of all if the scoreboard indicates team fouls I give it a glance on occasion. Secondly, I try to take my time when I feel like the bonus is getting near to give the scorer a chance to do his paperwork and when a bonus foul occurs I move toward the offending player to indicate the foul and point to the offended player and tell him/her that they are the shooter. This communication works well for me. Good Luck!

Before I go to report, I make eye contact with my partner to let him know what I have, and tell Him/Her the number of the shooter. Now my partner has my back covered while I report the foul.

JC

As the non-calling official, I will tell myself two numbers. the shooter and the player that fouled. I don't worry about colors. I also let my partner know I have the shooter. I find this is the best way to help. As the calling official i do my on spot mechanics and point to the shooter to let my partners know.

On the mechanics of calling fouls, the best advice ever given to me is to SLOW DOWN. At the time of the foul, hit your whistle, and then announce what you have in this order... who fouled, what kind of foul you have if it's not obvious, who the shooter is, and how many free throws (s)he'll have. I try to announce this loud enough that my partner, the table and both coaches can hear it. Taking 3-4 extra seconds to get all this straight is much preferable to losing a shooter or leaving your partner in the dark as to what you have.

Regarding the question about bonus situations, I try to use time-outs to check with the table on the current number of team fouls. This way, I'm usually aware of how close each team is getting to the seventh and tenth fouls. Echoing the message above, the scoreboard can also be used as a guide, depending on your confidence in the overall reliability of the scoreboard operator.

Good luck!

I think we can talk techniques until we are blue in the face, but the best answer is to just do it. If we make a conscious effort before each game that we will know who our shooter is, or how many team fouls there are, it will eventually become second nature. Think back to the first time you ever officiated. Many of us had trouble coming up with a closed fist for a foul, and an open palm for a violation. Now, with more experience it is automatic. The same thing happens with knowing the shooter and the foul situation.

Advise given to me that works is to know the shooter on every foul beginning with the first one. Know what you have when you blow whistle. Know fouler and shooter before you leave to report. You may not have to annouce the numbers, but have them in your mind so there won't be any surprises when bonus goes into effect

What I usually do is "MARK" the shooter. If I am the calling official I ususlaly "bird-dog" the fouler (remember I use FIBA) and then say "12 black is the shooter" loud enough for my partner to hear and everyone else to hear so there is no confusion. It puts the number in my mind and then no one can contradct me.

If I am the non-calling official. I come in and mark the shooter and then ask if there are any shots if there may be some confusion. I then point to him until everything clears out. And then there is definelty NO confusion.

CHRIS
THE BAHAMAS

Experience, experience, experience!!! The more you officiate, the more aware of the situations you are in. You only get this by doing games and getting experience. You should after every foul or stoppage of play give a quick look at the scoreboard and see how many fouls are on the board. Also, if your head is in the game, you should know at some point when you are at least close to the bonus. When you finally get in the bonus you just simply tell your partner who the shooter is and then go report your foul. The more experience you get the easier this becomes. Not much else you can say than that.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Geneva">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JRutledge:
Experience, experience, experience!!! The more you officiate, the more aware of the situations you are in. You only get this by doing games and getting experience. You should after every foul or stoppage of play give a quick look at the scoreboard and see how many fouls are on the board. Also, if your head is in the game, you should know at some point when you are at least close to the bonus. When you finally get in the bonus you just simply tell your partner who the shooter is and then go report your foul. The more experience you get the easier this becomes. Not much else you can say than that.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, Rut,
It certainly does get easier when you no longer have to remember where the table is, remember to go around the players and not through them, remember the proper mechanic you are gonna use for a signal.
Yup, experience lets 95% of the reporting automatic and you don't even have to think about it anymore. It just happens. http://www.refereeforum.com/ubb/smile.gif
mick

Why has no one talked about the 6th and 9 fouls. I have been taught that these are the most important. In FIBA the 7th team foul is the most important. On the 6th,9th and 7th COMMUNICATE with your partner, let them know what is going on. By telling your partner verbally or non verbally you are showing that you are on the ball and helping to work as a team.

Who said not to indicate this on the bonus fouls(6th and 9th)? You have to do this in these situations much more than shooting fouls. It is not as obvious. I think the question is how to remember the shooter and that situation would not be an exception.

By letting your partner know that the 6th or 9th foul has occured the implied message is that on the next foul call the non calling official will be sure to get the shooters numbers, sorry i didn't make myself clearer. The calling official main priority is to call and report the foul. The off official(s)main priority is to find the shooter and watch the players.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Geneva">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hoopsrefBC:
By letting your partner know that the 6th or 9th foul has occured the implied message is that on the next foul call the non calling official will be sure to get the shooters numbers, sorry i didn't make myself clearer. The calling official main priority is to call and report the foul. The off official(s)main priority is to find the shooter and watch the players.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bird Dog
When you make the call bird dog by going up to the foul and saying out loud what you have, 34 black you fouled on the arm 15 white you are my shooter loud enough so that my partner can hear me that also helps me get it straight so that when i report to the table i an on it.

------------------

Allways trying to get better!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Geneva">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by joselirizarry:
Bird Dog
When you make the call bird dog by going up to the foul ....
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Jose,
We only close down a few steps toward the foul. Going up to the place of foul may appear too aggressive.
mick

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Geneva">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by joselirizarry:
Bird Dog
When you make the call bird dog by going up to the foul and saying out loud what you have, 34 black you fouled on the arm 15 white you are my shooter loud enough so that my partner can hear me that also helps me get it straight so that when i report to the table i an on it.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry, but the higher ball you do the more you rely on your partner(s), trust that they can get the players organized and find the correct shooter, by keeping two numbers in your mind you could get the color or number screwed up at the bench.

Bird doging as far as i know is being used less and less around the world. Associations are trying to get away with the intimidation factor it brings with it.

Keep smiling http://www.refereeforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Geneva">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hoopsrefBC:
Sorry, but the higher ball you do the more you rely on your partner(s), trust that they can get the players organized and find the correct shooter, by keeping two numbers in your mind you could get the color or number screwed up at the bench.

Bird doging as far as i know is being used less and less around the world. Associations are trying to get away with the intimidation factor it brings with it.

Keep smiling http://www.refereeforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

thank hoopsrefBC

for letting me know.
what level of ball are you doing?


------------------

Allways trying to get better!



[This message has been edited by joselirizarry (edited August 30, 2000).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Geneva">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hoopsrefBC:
Sorry, but the higher ball you do the more you rely on your partner(s), trust that they can get the players organized and find the correct shooter, by keeping two numbers in your mind you could get the color or number screwed up at the bench.

Bird doging as far as i know is being used less and less around the world. Associations are trying to get away with the intimidation factor it brings with it.

Keep smiling http://www.refereeforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hoopsref,
You are correct. No bird dogging in CCA. But it is desirable for HS ball in Michigan and other United States.
mick

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Geneva">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by joselirizarry:
hoopsrefBC
thank for letting me know.
what level of ball are you doing?


<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



------------------

Allways trying to get better!

I just want to take issue with what you said about your partner helping you out with the shooter the higher you go.

I have never heard that before, and I do think that you should not rely on your partner for information on the shooter and bonus. That is your responsibility. Your partner (especially in 3 man) may not have a clue who the foul is on or what you actually called. If they are doing their job all they would know is where you are putting the ball in.

The only way that you are going to know the shooter is experience and game knowledge. After every foul you should try to give a quick look before the ball gets put in and see what the foul situation is (if they have a scoreboard that tells you). If your head is in the game you should know just by how many times a foul has been called on a team. You know by experience that this team has shot so many foul shots or has not. You know if they should be shooting or about to be shooting. But this comes with experience and taking your time. I had to learn this myself, sometimes the hard way.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Geneva">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mikeref:
i am looking for tips or procedures officials use to help them identify and remember who the shooter is after a foul. Also, how to be more aware of a team approaching the bonus situation.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

mikeref
in the 1999-2000 OFFICIALS MANUAL
NATIONAL FEDERATION OF STSTE HIGH SCHOOL ASSOCIATIONS

NOT HIGHER BALL.
On page 35. Fouls 230.
Its is imperative that a definite procedre in officiating mechanics be used when a foul occurs. The following duties should be performed in the order listed by the calling official:

a. Informs the timer and alerts the scorer by sounding the whistle with a sharp blast while raising one hand, fist clenched, straight and high above the head.

b. After a slight delay, extend the other hand, palm down toward the fouling player,s hips.

c. While holding the foul signal, move near the fouling player, stop and verbally inform the plaer that he/she fouled by stating the shirt color and number.

d. Lower the foul signal and only indicate the nature of the foul by giving a preliminary signal.

e. Verbally give free-throw shooter,s number to the shooter and to the other official. Visually give the number of free throws to the free official.

f. Indicate the throw-in spot if a throw-in wll follow.

g. If a goal has been scored, signal to count as soon as it is legally scored.

h. If the ball goes in the basket, it is the responsibility of the free official to communicate to the calling official
"the ball went in."


Now remember that this is only High School Ball not higher ball. DIV 3, DIV 2, DIV 1, CBA, WNBA, NBA, XYZ?

------------------

Allways trying to get better!



[This message has been edited by joselirizarry (edited August 30, 2000).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Geneva">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by joselirizarry:
thank hoopsrefBC

for letting me know.
what level of ball are you doing?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm have been officiating for about 9 years, and have done all levels of Ball from high school to junior college and some university exibition games. i average about 125 games a year. Mostly, i work our highest boys and girls level which is 'AAA' level.

For the calling official not to have to worry about the shooter the partnerships trust level must be REALLY high. I work with about 20 officials on a continual basis so i must keep adjusting to their styles and techniques. Oh by the way...nothing says you don't have to remember the shooter, if your the calling official i just find it easier trying to remember i number.

Keep smiling
SH

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Geneva">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JRutledge:
I just want to take issue with what you said about your partner helping you out with the shooter the higher you go.

I have never heard that before, and I do think that you should not rely on your partner for information on the shooter and bonus. That is your responsibility. Your partner (especially in 3 man) may not have a clue who the foul is on or what you actually called. If they are doing their job all they would know is where you are putting the ball in.

The only way that you are going to know the shooter is experience and game knowledge. After every foul you should try to give a quick look before the ball gets put in and see what the foul situation is (if they have a scoreboard that tells you). If your head is in the game you should know just by how many times a foul has been called on a team. You know by experience that this team has shot so many foul shots or has not. You know if they should be shooting or about to be shooting. But this comes with experience and taking your time. I had to learn this myself, sometimes the hard way.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I may be lucky...most of the partners i work with help me out by indicating that we're in bonus and who the shooter is. It not a matter of relying on them its more of a trust level. You are correct in that the non-calling official won't always know who the shooter is. In thoses situations it is necessary to indicate who the shooter is. If i working with a junior official i will ALWAYS try to know who the shooter is. Sometimes its a game within the game. (who has better management skill.

Ever had a correctable error situation and tried to remember who the shooter was? I havn't but, have seen it happen at our provincial / state tournament, working at the bench as the backup official it was nice to be able to flash them the shooter number when they couldn't figure it out. The beer was nice after the game. http://www.refereeforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

Your again right...It's all about game experience and knowledge of the game. I've only conplete about 1200 games so i still have a long way to go. I just try to stay focused and aware of everything on the court.
By me as the non calling official recogning who the shooter is i feel that i am in complete control. I usuall try to rember what player has committed how many fouls.

Try this next season. After your partner calls a foul, and has reported it and then grants a time out walk up to them after 45 seconds of the timeout has exspired and ask them who the shooter is. Surprising how many forget who it was when the players leave the court!!!!

NEVER TRUST THE SCOREBOARD on what the score is or the foul situation. This advice was given to me by my mentor and others at a camp in Washington state. The only true way is to ask the scorekeeper.

By the way is your name Jim? and have you ever attended a camp located in British Columbia, Canada? I met a Jim Rutledge a few years ago and was kind of curious.

Keep smiling http://www.refereeforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Geneva">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mick:
Hoopsref,
You are correct. No bird dogging in CCA. But it is desirable for HS ball in Michigan and other United States.
mick

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks Micks

Up here in the great white north i've only had the opportunity to ref NCAA rules and only had the opportunity to ref NF when i cross the line into Wahington State. Our provincial educator who works NCAA Division one ball is slowing adapting some of the better mechanics.(IHMO)Less confrontation that calling of a foul is better the game will flow again(IMHO)

Keep smiling.
SH

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Geneva">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by joselirizarry: mikeref
in the 1999-2000 OFFICIALS MANUAL
NATIONAL FEDERATION OF STSTE HIGH SCHOOL ASSOCIATIONS

NOT HIGHER BALL.
...snip...
Now remember that this is only High School Ball not higher ball. DIV 3, DIV 2, DIV 1, CBA, WNBA, NBA, XYZ? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There's not doubt that the mechanics manual states exactly what you quoted. But the better officials are bird dogging less and less. I went to a camp, a HS camp not a college camp, this summer and we were encouraged not to bird dog.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Geneva">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hoopsrefBC:
I may be lucky...most of the partners i work with help me out by indicating that we're in bonus and who the shooter is. It not a matter of relying on them its more of a trust level. You are correct in that the non-calling official won't always know who the shooter is. In thoses situations it is necessary to indicate who the shooter is. If i working with a junior official i will ALWAYS try to know who the shooter is. Sometimes its a game within the game. (who has better management skill.

Ever had a correctable error situation and tried to remember who the shooter was? I havn't but, have seen it happen at our provincial / state tournament, working at the bench as the backup official it was nice to be able to flash them the shooter number when they couldn't figure it out. The beer was nice after the game. http://www.refereeforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

Your again right...It's all about game experience and knowledge of the game. I've only conplete about 1200 games so i still have a long way to go. I just try to stay focused and aware of everything on the court.
By me as the non calling official recogning who the shooter is i feel that i am in complete control. I usuall try to rember what player has committed how many fouls.

Try this next season. After your partner calls a foul, and has reported it and then grants a time out walk up to them after 45 seconds of the timeout has exspired and ask them who the shooter is. Surprising how many forget who it was when the players leave the court!!!!

NEVER TRUST THE SCOREBOARD on what the score is or the foul situation. This advice was given to me by my mentor and others at a camp in Washington state. The only true way is to ask the scorekeeper.

By the way is your name Jim? and have you ever attended a camp located in British Columbia, Canada? I met a Jim Rutledge a few years ago and was kind of curious.

Keep smiling http://www.refereeforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am not Jim Rutledge BTW.

But let me make something clear, I do not say that you could not get help on the shooter, but I would not make it a practice. Because if it is a off ball you might not see or realize what your partner called, so that is why I say that you do not rely on your partner. In 3 person, it is not uncommon that (if you are truly officiating your area) the non calling official would have a clue what you called. Sure they should be told who has the ball, but they might not know who the foul was on or who will benefit from the call.

And finally, you are correct, never trust the scoreboard, but if it is wrong that is what everyone is going to go by, so you better be aware if it is correct or not. It is not different from time or the score, if you have definite knowledge that it is wrong, you better have it corrected. Not very different from the possession arrow.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Geneva">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JRutledge:
I am not Jim Rutledge BTW.

But let me make something clear, I do not say that you could not get help on the shooter, but I would not make it a practice. Because if it is a off ball you might not see or realize what your partner called, so that is why I say that you do not rely on your partner. In 3 person, it is not uncommon that (if you are truly officiating your area) the non calling official would have a clue what you called. Sure they should be told who has the ball, but they might not know who the foul was on or who will benefit from the call.

And finally, you are correct, never trust the scoreboard, but if it is wrong that is what everyone is going to go by, so you better be aware if it is correct or not. It is not different from time or the score, if you have definite knowledge that it is wrong, you better have it corrected. Not very different from the possession arrow.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think that we both can agree that as long as the team of officials on the court can get the correct shooter and manage the game effectively that's what counts. I don't think either of us is wrong, it's just a different way of approach the same situation. Scoreclock wise i never trust it. What ever is written is what we go with. Every coach know that the book is official and that the clock is just a way to inform people of the game situation.

Take care, have a great season. Best of luck!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Geneva">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hoopsrefBC:
I think that we both can agree that as long as the team of officials on the court can get the correct shooter and manage the game effectively that's what counts. I don't think either of us is wrong, it's just a different way of approach the same situation. Scoreclock wise i never trust it. What ever is written is what we go with. Every coach know that the book is official and that the clock is just a way to inform people of the game situation.

Take care, have a great season. Best of luck!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

All that I am really saying is that I do not rely on my partner to get me a shooter, if I called a foul. I will tell them who the shooter is myself and tell them what we are going to do. And as a partner, I tell the calling officials, do not automatically expect me to know what you called, tell me who the shooter is, because in off ball fouls, I might not have a clue what he/she called. So help me out and tell me (especially if we are going to the other end of the court).

As for the scoreboard, it does not matter what the actual scoreboard says. It only officially matters what the scorebook says. But as a guide (if fouls numbers are listed) I try to look after every foul if I can to make sure that what I believe to be the count of fouls to be the same in my head. If a team has 6 or 9 fouls, it will help in knowing if the next foul that I call against them, we will be shooting or not. I try to signal if we are in bonus immediatly rather than rely solely on the scorekeeper. Does not mean that there are never problems, but that all depends on the experience and awareness of the scorekeeper and offical scorer. This practice just keeps my head in the game and if there are problems, I might be able to help my partner, because foul and score problems are usually started by what is on the scoreboard first. Coaches and fans do not ask what is wrong with the scorebook, they ask what is on the scoreboard.

I am not saying you are wrong, this is just what I have been taught and works for you. Some guys use a whistle in their pocket to help with AP issues, but that does not work for me, it just confuses me and makes things complicated.