You make the call!

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

CHARGE!!

MTD, Sr.

Judtech

As the contrarian, what about a travel on the initial rebound and dribble out? Then I have nothing till an on the back rebound foul after the shot.

just another ref

BadNewsRef wrote
It might be a crock to you personally, but not to all supervisors.

There is crew consistency. And I know my supervisors don't want to hear a "fine line" explanation for why 49/51, 51/49, or 50/50 plays were called differently on one end of the court as opposed to the other.

The explanation is simple. If 49/51 and 51/49 plays are not called differently, then one of them was called wrong.

So where do you and your supervisor draw the line? 52/48? 55/45?

I don't get it.

Raymond

just another ref wrote
The explanation is simple. If 49/51 and 51/49 plays are not called differently, then one of them was called wrong.

So where do you and your supervisor draw the line? 52/48? 55/45?

I don't get it.

Most people I talk to do get it. So it's not a problem anywhere I work.

Adam

badnewsref wrote
most people i talk to do get it. So it's not a problem anywhere i work.

btaylor64

just another ref wrote
The explanation is simple. If 49/51 and 51/49 plays are not called differently, then one of them was called wrong.

So where do you and your supervisor draw the line? 52/48? 55/45?

I don't get it.

Well I've never seen u work, but it sounds like u r a pure playcaller and not a referee, I'm not trying to be mean or derogatory or attack you, but you have to have a feel for the game imo and all I can say is if a player spins off a guy like that on that end and we have a no call and then a guy on the other end does the same type spin move and the contact looks slightly more than the last play I still think no call is the correct call for consistency of the game. Now that is not to say that you have an obvious off. Foul and then an obvious, blatant block on the other. I can't tell where to draw the line, this job is not black and white at every venture there is plenty of grey and u have to have the ability to feel your particular game out, cause every game is different as we all know.

tomegun

BadNewsRef wrote
Most people I talk to do get it. So it's not a problem anywhere I work.

I got lost somewhere, but I have a question. If a play is called wrong at one end, is your supervisor expecting you to call a similar play wrong on the other end?

And...I'm back. I agree, call 50/50 calls with consistency, but a wrong call does not mean we should strive to be consistently wrong for the rest of the game. And you know me, I will have awareness but I may not see a play SDF that you call like I do on a play I have later. Does Donnee still talk about remembering the last 4 calls? I miss basketball on the east coast.

Raymond

tomegun wrote
I got lost somewhere, but I have a question. If a play is called wrong at one end, is your supervisor expecting you to call a similar play wrong on the other end?

Definitely not. A wrong call at one end does not mean to make the same bone-headed call at the other. We're talking about those 50/50 plays that could go either way. Everyone has their own judgement, what may be incidental or marginal to one official may be a foul to another. So we have to be on the same page. Most folks like to limit this convo to PC/Block plays, but it applies to a multitude of situations: freedom of movement; hand-checking; contact on the shooter in the paint; rebounding fouls; etc.

tomegun wrote
And...I'm back. I agree, call 50/50 calls with consistency, but a wrong call does not mean we should strive to be consistently wrong for the rest of the game. And you know me, I will have awareness but I may not see a play SDF that you call like I do on a play I have later. Does Donnee still talk about remembering the last 4 calls? I miss basketball on the east coast.

Haven't been around Donnee as much lately but I do have a local mentor (who happens to be on the Women's side) who preaches that type of knowledge of the game.

JugglingReferee

BillyMac wrote
Travel?

Good call. But not by Red 55, but rather Red 10 on the defensive rebound. He landed with both feet on the ground.

< fiba video voice >
The left foot is moved to a new point of contact with the floor which establishes the right foot as the pivot foot. The right foot is then lifted before releasing the ball to start a dibble. Travelling violation missed by the officials.
< /fiba video voice >

Judtech

JugglingReferee wrote
Good call. But not by Red 55, but rather Red 10 on the defensive rebound. He landed with both feet on the ground.

< fiba video voice >
The left foot is moved to a new point of contact with the floor which establishes the right foot as the pivot foot. The right foot is then lifted before releasing the ball to start a dibble. Travelling violation missed by the officials.
< /fiba video voice >

There was wisdom in reply #33 I think😃

just another ref

btaylor64 wrote
...... all I can say is if a player spins off a guy like that on that end and we have a no call and then a guy on the other end does the same type spin move and the contact looks slightly more than the last play I still think no call is the correct call for consistency of the game.

And then if the contact is slightly more......and slightly more.......and slightly more........??

You have to draw a line, on every call.

The last call has zero bearing.

APG

just another ref wrote
And then if the contact is slightly more......and slightly more.......and slightly more........??

You have to draw a line, on every call.

The last call has zero bearing.

You're thinking WAY too hard on this.

just another ref

AllPurposeGamer wrote
You're thinking WAY too hard on this.

I'm thinking about it now, because that's what the thread is about. That's kinda the whole point, I think. You don't think about it. (Is this play similar to that last play or not? hmmmmm) You just make the call.

Raymond

just another ref wrote
I'm thinking about it now, because that's what the thread is about. That's kinda the whole point, I think. You don't think about it. (Is this play similar to that last play or not? hmmmmm) You just make the call.

Really? I can see you're a great partner. 🙄

I guess in your world everyone has the exact same judgement. Great if you are a one man crew.

btaylor64

just another ref wrote
And then if the contact is slightly more......and slightly more.......and slightly more........??

You have to draw a line, on every call.

The last call has zero bearing.

If u don't think there are certain points in games where the last call doesn't matter than your games suffer and I don't believe your officiating realistically. Like I said earlier you have to have a feel for the game. If u believe the contact on the other end is obviously different than the previous end then do what you have to do, but if it isn't and you call the two plays differently then prepare to take crap from, players, coaches, fans and most importantly supervisors for being incosistent when all you really had to do was call them the same and the coach can't say a word when u tell him that. Just my take tho, maybe more than just you disagree with me.

Adam

btaylor64 wrote
If u don't think there are certain points in games where the last call doesn't matter than your games suffer and I don't believe your officiating realistically. Like I said earlier you have to have a feel for the game. If u believe the contact on the other end is obviously different than the previous end then do what you have to do, but if it isn't and you call the two plays differently then prepare to take crap from, players, coaches, fans and most importantly supervisors for being incosistent when all you really had to do was call them the same and the coach can't say a word when u tell him that. Just my take tho, maybe more than just you disagree with me.

Gotta tell you, I'm not sure what's really all that difficult or controversial about your take. Seems pretty basic and obvious to me. :shrug:

just another ref

btaylor64 wrote
If u believe the contact on the other end is obviously different than the previous end then do what you have to do....

The only way two calls can be different is if the contact is obviously different?

Obvious to whom?

The only thing obvious about many calls to many observers is "Hey! He called that against us! I don't like it!"

.....but if it isn't and you call the two plays differently then prepare to take crap.....

If one isn't prepared to take crap, I suggest one should consider another pastime.

coach can't say a word when u tell him that.

What can he say anyway?

"That's the same play you called against us on the other end!"

"Nah, but it was similar."

APG

Snaqwells wrote
Gotta tell you, I'm not sure what's really all that difficult or controversial about your take. Seems pretty basic and obvious to me. :shrug:

There is no difficulty or controversy behind what he said because it is basic and obvious to most...but then again so is a blarge administration....😉

just another ref

Snaqwells wrote
Gotta tell you, I'm not sure what's really all that difficult or controversial about your take. Seems pretty basic and obvious to me. :shrug:

I think both sides have overstated the obvious. Consistency is obviously one of the most important things we strive for. But, conversely, the next call does not have to be the same as the last call, even though it may seem to be exactly the same to the untrained, often biased observer.

Adam

just another ref wrote
I think both sides have overstated the obvious. Consistency is obviously one of the most important things we strive for. But, conversely, the next call does not have to be the same as the last call, even though it may seem to be exactly the same to the untrained, often biased observer.

And no one said it did. Only that you should probably take the last call into account. If you think they're sufficiently different, fine, but to simply ignore the history of the individual game is, to quote Ben, "unrealistic."

« Previous Page