What are the qualifications for a legitamate fofeit, according to the rules??

Welcome grcoach,
What ya thinkin' about in particular?
Do you have a situation in mind?
Are you looking for the easiest way to do it? :-)
mick

3-1-1
Each team consists of five players, one of whom is the captain.
NOTE: A team must begin the game with five players, but if it has no substitutes to replace disqualified or injured players, it must continue with fewer than five. When there is only one player participating for a team, the team shall forfeit the game, unless the referee believes that team has an opportunity to win the game.

5-4-1
The referee shall forfeit the game if a team refuses to play after being instructed to do so by any official. The referee may also forfeit a game if any player, team member, bench personnel or coach fails to comply with any technical-foul penalty, or repeatedly commits technical-foul infractions or other acts which make a travesty of the game. If the team to which the game is forfeited is ahead, the score at the time of forfeiture shall stand. If this team is not ahead, the score shall be recorded as 2-0 in its favor.

2-5-4
The referee shall:
May declare the game a forfeit when conditions warrant.

Those are the only rules.

What happened?

No. I kind of ran into a situation last week where my team was just getting it handed to them and the opposing coach continued a full court man to man press with the majority of his starters in the game. There were plenty of deadballs and timeouts called in the fourth quarter, so he had multiple opportunities to sub. I had played my entire bench since about 4:30 left in the third quarter, and he made no effort to reciprocate. So with 4:00 left in the fourth down by 37 points I called it off. I told the referee my team was finished, we lined it up shook hands and went to the locker room.

uhhhhhh.....no, this does not qualify under the rules. It's kinda like when life slaps ya around a bit, ya gotta stick in there & take it until it stops.

Was your team happy to call it quits?

I hope you were not coaching children. Since every game should be a learning experience, what was it you were trying to teach them? I am sure there is something you could have worked on in the last 4 min to prepare them for their next game. At the very least it seems like you ample opportunity to work on breaking the press. The next time one of your players get frustrated with the game and they give up you'll know where the got it from.

The ones on the floor were. They had no chance of even getting the ball across half court , let alone actually getting a shot off. I only had nine players total and one of them is coming off a recent ankle sprain. He only played about 10 total minutes anyway, and another of my starters had fouled out.

I should also add that this is a JV level game and the opposing team had brought down 3 varsity players for this game. Two of them were starters on the varsity.

Like I said, hang in there until it stops.

uhhhhhh.....no, this does not qualify under the rules. It's kinda like when life slaps ya around a bit, ya gotta stick in there & take it until it stops.

Agree, gotta stick it out.

Incidentally, if I'm reffing that game, and one team's full-court pressing with a 40pt lead in the 4th, I'm calling every touch foul in sight until they back off.

As wrong as I believe it is to quit before it's over, I believe more in not running up the score like jerks. Especially after stacking the team with 2-3 varsity starters.

Thanks for the replies guys!! I will take them to heart. Our Administrative board wants to suspend me for one game for breaking rules. I was wondering if you could help me understand what written rule I was breaking.

One of the two in Bktballref's post would cover it...

5-4-1
"The referee shall forfeit the game if a team refuses to play after being instructed to do so by any official....or other acts which make a travesty of the game."

2-5-4
The referee shall:
May declare the game a forfeit when conditions warrant.

I was breaking these rules? I thought they supported the legality of the whole thing?

I think it's kind of lame to suspend you, although there may be rules in your league about who can and cannot pull a team off the court, so to speak. Some leagues forbid the coach from doing this, to prevent teams who are losing badly from simply packing it in (like you did).

If your assc. wanted to be nice about it, they could probably forego a suspension, as it sounds like neither the officials nor the other team had a problem with it. But I believe the rules could be used to technically justify suspending you (for "making a travesty of a game" or something like that).

Normally, if a game is forfeited during play, it is supposed to reflect BADLY on the team that forfeits, no?

Not me. We *all* have to stick it out. Blowouts are part of the deal, call the game without bias until it's over.

I once worked a completely overmatched AAU game, losers didn't get to 30, winners were hell bent on getting to 100. I called the "and one" that got them there.

AAU is a whole different ball game. This is Homeschool basketball. None of these kids are playing for money or scholarships.

Not me. We *all* have to stick it out. Blowouts are part of the deal, call the game without bias until it's over.

I once worked a completely overmatched AAU game, losers didn't get to 30, winners were hell bent on getting to 100. I called the "and one" that got them there.

Good points...

Anytime I've ever heard of a coach pulling his team off the floor or field, there have been repercussions for the coach. If you had ask the question prior to the game, I would have warned you that a suspension was a possibility.

The rules that I posted address reasons why an official could declare a game a forfeit. They don't really address a coach pulling his team off the floor.

There are expected and aceepted levels of sportmanship. The opposing coach broke some of those rules, but IMHO so did you.

When I was a sophomore in high school, we played a power house on their home court on Senior Night. Coach, before the game, suggested we might walk off if they lived up to their reputation of running up the score. Sure enough. Beginning of the 4th Q, their starters are in when they're up by about 60.
Coach decides to pull the plug, but he had the support of most of the players (what would we honestly have said?) He took a 1 game suspension, as well as a lot of grief from their fans when they came to our court.

snaqs

I'm sorry to hear about this loss. The opposing coach was really being a jerk, it seems.

There are no Fed rules for suspending you in this situation. However, your state probably has some rules against it. I know that taking your players off the court is a Big No-No in Kentucky. A coach did that in a friend's game last year and he was suspended and the school was fined for it. It was not pretty.

Maybe it's just me, but I think grcoach had the best interest of his kids in mind. I have worked plenty of games where I wished the team getting slaughtered had the "courage" to call it off.
When you can see in the kid's faces that they don't want to be out there anymore, the game needs to end.
Teaching perserverance, working through adversity, etc.,etc., are fine. But a Coach who has compassion for his kids, is OK in my book.

I realize this isn't a coaching site, and, I don't expect officials to take one side or the other, but, as a parent and coach, it galls me to see a team pour it on. What about the kids who bust their rears in practice, who continue to sit on the bench while the starters remain in the game way past the time needed? If you're going to leave a starter in, give him an opportunity to play a position he normally doesn't play (e.g., a forward play pg). How will the team fare down the road, when foul trouble or fatigue necessitate the use of a bench that has little or no game experience.?

Further, if you're a rec coach, at any youth level, you're inviting the wrath of parents who devote a lot of time and money to get junior to practice and games, if he sits on the bench on either side of a 40 point blow-out.

But, I agree with most of the others. You don't quit. In games like those, you look at each possession as a game, each with its own victory or defeat. You stop worrying about the score.

Okay, I'm done. Sorry about the length.

I'm with Drake. grcoach, I'm not sure I'd have done what you did, but I don't have a problem with it. I would think your league board would want to know about the opponents sportsmanship. Do they do this to all their opponents, or is it just personal? At JV level, I'd be reluctant as a ref to say anything to the coach, but I don't see why you couldn't say at least "Great press, coach, when does it stop?" in a mild or dry tone of voice.

On the other hand, 37 points isn't all that horrible of a blow-out in a lot of situations. I think of several schools around here who would have a party with confetti and a cake if they lost by "only" 37 to certain opponents. Still, at least one of those winning schools, has very good sportsmanship, and never presses when up by more than 20 and they ALWAYS pull their starters in the second half to go warm up with the varsity team. That's why I'm wondering if your "problem" opponents were sticking it to you for some specific reason.

Saw a similar sitch last night in a boys varsity. Team up by 40 with 6:00 minutes to go in game. Full court press all starters still in. At that point losing coach told his player to in bound ball by throwing it to leading team for an easy lay up. After the second time the official stopped the game and was talking to the player throwing it in. I am not sure what the official was saying. I am assuming he was trying to talk the player out of it. The coach was screaming give him the ball. The official did and the coach yelled for the player to throw to the opposing team. At that point the leading coach called time out. Substituted three players but still full court pressed. Play resumed as normal but crowd was screaming to call off the press which he did after 3 or 4 more times up and down the court. How would you have handled this? This would seem to be heading for a travesty if they continued to throw the ball to the other team. How long would you have let this go on? Woudl you speak to only losing coach or both?

Our CYO league has an explicit rule stating that any coach who pulls his team will be suspened for at least one game, possibly the season, and potentially permanetly. I believe the rule was put in to control hot headed coaches who let their tempers override their reason. Our league also has a "mercy" rule that forbids pressing when the team is ahead by more that 18 points, and forbid defense outside the 3 point circle when ahead by more than 25. The rule is frequently invoked because there is a wide range of talent between the teams in our league, and it does help avoid some of the bitterness that can come up. Losing coaches can still get pretty upset when (in their opinions) they don't see the refs enforcing this rule down to the level of contesting loose balls. My sympathies lie with the losing coaches, but I have never seen the winning coaches not direct their players to fall back. I'm sure it's hard for kids who have been taught to play agressively and press all the time to lay off.

In your situation, I may well have done what you did, even knowing that I might get a suspension. Your opponent was being a total jerk, and sticking around might have led to emotional confrontations that would have served not purpose. In my mind, coaches who lay it on like that are themselves causing a travesty.

There have been many games where I as an official wanted to quit. But I sucked it up and finished the game. That said, if a team is pouring it on pressing another team in the fourth quarter with its starters, I am definitely calling every little touch foul I see. They brush a jersey its a foul. I love the line I use in this situation, "Coach, I can't tell you how to coach, but I can tell you how I'm going to officiate if you don't pull the press or your starters!" In my mind the starters aren't learning anything in this situation. If he chooses to press with the backups that is another story. That may be his style and I don't have a problem with that.

Amen, brother. (Even though people can argue against this position.)

"one hundred...one hundred"
 

Had this happen to me a few years back. Homecoming game where home team is slaughtering visitors.

2 minutes left, scrubs in, home team scores to make it 98-40 something.

Visiting coach calls TO. Crowd going crazy chanting for 100.
After TO, visitors ready to inbound under endline, no press. Crowd continues chant.

V1 inbounds to V2 who calmly shoots the ball into home teams basket...crowd falls silent..100 goes on the board...visiting bench erupts with laughter at the shocked crowd...stole their thunder!

I got a kick out of that.

Pizanno

Now that....is funny!

For all of you that say don't quit, keep the kids on the floor. Personally I feel that there are times when nothing can be gained from keeping the kids on the floor and letting them get thorougly humiliated by another team.

Example a couple of years ago, I am watching a girl's JV game. Final score of the game was 102 - 10. The winning teams coach was pissed because his girls didn't win by one hundred. This team was playing juniors and sophmores against a team of freshman and some 8th graders. They full court pressed the entire first half. I think the losing team only got the ball passed half court 3 times all half. Score at half was 53-3. Second half starts and it is the same five starters, still pressing full court. I guess the visiting coach started to feel sorry for them because in the 4th he pulled the press and went with a 1-3-1 half court trap.

Just judging by the way the girls responded after been humiliated like that, two of them quit playing and the rest have absolutely no cinfidence in themselves anymore, I think the coach could have done more good than harm by pulling the girls off the court.

Right on, Big Joe!

Maybe I just don't get it. How can it be less humiliating to have your coach forfiet so you don't get drummed on the scoreboard? I can hear the kids at school "Only reason they didn't beat you sorry rear-end by 100 is the coach made you quit playing!" Yea, I can see how that will really build your confidence.

What is worse, showing everyone that no matter how bad the circumstances are you will keep trying and giving you best effort or being labeled a quitter and someone who has to be protected from "those mean people on the other team"?

Back when I played baseball, for two years we lost almost every game. The last game we got beat by 35 (and the game was called after the 3rd inning because of the time limit). We used that as motivation to work hard during the winter and get better. Lost only 2 games in the next three years. If you don't like the feeling when you get drummed...work hard to get better. You may not win, but at least you can hold your head up and take pride in your effort.

Let's say that the coach now says that he's gonna put in a complaint about you two guys because officials are supposed to be unbiased and fair.The complaint goes into your assigner/evaluator/whoevertakescomplaints,with your remark quoted verbatim in it,along with witnesses that heard the remark.How does whoevertakescomplaints respond to this complaint now?

Lemme suggest,guys,that you call the game that way if you want to.Just don't announce it to anybody but your partner(s)! JMO.

I don't want to start going back and forth on this one, over very slight differences in philosophy and perceptions of sportsmanship, integrity, etc. We all have our opinions and are entitled to them.

Suffice it to say if it went this way, this coach is quite obviously even more of a jerk than I thought. I will take the heat, and I have full confidence that my assignor/evaluator/whoevertakescomplaints would back me up.

Sorry to bring up Jim Rome again, but I am out.

I've had to discuss this topic for about 10 days now with everyone, and I just wanted to get some unbiased opinions on the situation. The president of the homeschool board is the athletic director of the program that I fofeited to, so I kind of had nowhere to get this kind of honest discussion. All of my players parents and the players themselves continue to support me in my decision, and they are the ones who were at the game (not to mention the ones I have to deal with on a daily basis). I have lost games by more than 37 and not had any problem with it, so being beat very badly was not the issue, it was the way they did it. All of my defense reasons have been listed by various users and all of administrations have also.
I really enjoyed the 100 point scam. That was nice!!!!!

It galls us too, coach. I hate seeing it. If you're pressing in that type of situation, it better be clean because any contact prior to a turnover is going to be a foul. You don't have to tell anyone you're going to do that but most coaches get the message pretty quick. I know there are those that think that is wrong but I can live with that.