Ki-o-Rahi / basketball origins

[Taha Maori]

G'day to you all, we have a ball-type game in NZ called Ki-o-Rahi which has an interesting history all tied up with developments with 'poi toa' which is another sport, if you wanted to know more could look at this site http://www.flow-motions.net/poihistory.html. its quite interesting. I can't understand it all, but it seems to be up with the play because so many terms are familiar...but any skilled translation would be appreciated!

However I am really interested in finding out if b-ball has spawned other games and did b-ball originate from the Aztec game where they tried to get the rubber ball thru hoops? I vaguely remember something about Naismith, doing a mission posting in S. America before he "invented" the game.

Thanks for any info or views on this subject!

[mick]

I didn't know our Canadian neighbor, Mr. Naismith, went that far south.
Maybe he just went to a library when they asked him to come up with that physical education game.

[Taha Maori]

thankyou Mick, seems like your in the know, how about off-shoots of b-ball? are there any sports that have diverged from a b-ball state?

[mick]

Originally posted by Taha Maori
thankyou Mick, seems like your in the know, how about off-shoots of b-ball? are there any sports that have diverged from a b-ball state?

40 years ago in gym class, we played Commando ball.
We used a basketball and two baskets.
The class was split 20 against 20.
All Contact was legal.
Dribbling wasn't necessary.
The boundaries were the gym.
I don't remember if a basket was worth one or two points.
We didn't have the three-point shot at that time.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by mick

40 years ago in gym class, we played Commando ball.
We used a basketball and two baskets.
The class was split 20 against 20.
All Contact was legal.
Dribbling wasn't necessary.
The boundaries were the gym.
I don't remember if a basket was worth one or two points.
We didn't have the three-point shot at that time.

My kids played a similar game they called Kill the Carrier.

[rockyroad]

Yeah...we called it "Smear the (insert politically incorrect term here)"...lots of fun and only a few minor injuries... that was back when PE class was real PE!!

[RecRef]

Originally posted by Taha Maori

However I am really interested in finding out if b-ball has spawned other games and did b-ball originate from the Aztec game where they tried to get the rubber ball thru hoops? I vaguely remember something about Naismith, doing a mission posting in S. America before he "invented" the game.

Thanks for any info or views on this subject!

Based on current archeological thinking there are 3 basic differences between the Aztec game and modern basketball. First the game was played by using the legs/feet but mostly the hips to move the ball. Next the ring/hole was on the vertical plane not the horizontal as it is today. Probably the biggest difference is that the losers were sacrificed to the gods.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Taha Maori

Probably the biggest difference is that the losers were sacrificed to the gods. [/B][/QUOTE]Then or now?

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by RecRef
Probably the biggest difference is that the losers were sacrificed to the gods.

I was taught that the winners earned the honor of meeting the divinity. This is not true?

Chuck

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Probably the biggest difference is that the losers were sacrificed to the gods.

Then or now? [/B][/QUOTE]


Maybe it would be a good thing to bring back, sacrifice the losing coach.

[DownTownTonyBrown]

I've played a sport (intramurals at the Air Force Academy) called team handball that had some similarities to basketball and a couple other sports -soccer, hockey.

Seems like we used a volleyball sized ball and a goal sized between a soccer and a hockey goal. There was dribbling and passing. A goal was scored by throwing the ball into the goal (with great force because there was a goalie and a "cannot cross this line" crease.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Then or now?

Maybe it would be a good thing to bring back, sacrifice the losing coach. [/B][/QUOTE]To be fair,it probably should be both coaches. Plus selected fans.

[RecRef]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ChuckElias

[i]
I was taught that the winners earned the honor of meeting the divinity. This is not true?

Chuck

best link I can find at the moment is from Minnesota State University

http://emuseum.mnsu.edu/prehistory/l...ics/games.html

Remember seeing a program on the History Channel or the Descovery Channel or TLC early last year.

[Taha Maori]

Yes RecRef a very good site for earlier ball sports with hoops. There seem to be many variants of b-ball going by previous posters, they seem very popular but how come none of them have 'taken off'? is b-ball that ingrained or is it evolving into another type of game also? Something to reflect on perhaps?

[theboys]

There's a series of books called "Uncle John’s Absolutely Absorbing Bathroom Reader" (fine, laugh, but its true). They're thick volumes containing a lot of trivia about all kinds of subjects. Most of the stories/topics are short, hence they make great reading while on the throne.

Anyway, in volume 12 (!), they give an interesting history of the origin of basketball. Among other things:

* The game was the product of a need to give kids at the local YMCA an alternative to military drills, and French, Swedish and German gymnastics, all of which they were subjected to in the winter months, when it was too cold to go outside. Within two weeks of introducing the drills to the kids, the PE classes were in open rebellion. Two instructors had resigned, and the kids came to be known as "The Incorrigibles".

* Naismith said the kids weren't the problem, the system was. So, the head of the YMCA where Naismith worked charged Naismith with coming up with an alternative, and gave him two weeks to do it.

* Soccer was popular but a lot of windows were broken. Rugby caused a lot of injuries. The kids refused to play other games. With 24 hours left, he came up with the game we know as basketball.

Some of the concepts:

1. Players weren't allowed to run with the ball, because it encouraged tackling. When they started passing it to themselves as they ran downcourt ("dribbling"), he outlawed dribbling with two hands. He didn't address one-handed dribbling because he felt it would be too hard for the players to do anyway.

2. He originally asked the janitor for boxes he could nail to the walls, to use as hoops. The janitor could only find peach baskets; hence, basketball.

3. He nailed the baskets to balconies on each end of the gym. The height of the balconies? Ten feet.

4. The original game didn't use a backboard. Backboards were introduced later to stop fans who were sitting in the balconies from deflecting shots heading to the hoop.

5. It took 20 years for the original peach basket hoop to evolve into the hoop we use today. At one point in the evolution the hoop and net were used, but the net was closed at the bottom.

6. Early on, teams didn't have a set number of players. One game, at Cornell University, featured 50 players on each team. In 1896, the U. of Chicago and U. of Iowa played the first "official" five-man game.

7. The sport helped spread the popularity of the YMCA, helping the Y to become synonymous with sports and physical fitness.