|
Mon Jun 05, 2000, 05:06pm
|
|||
|
|||
Right on Mark!!! Unless as Tugger pointed out, the official determined that the player who batted the ball had actually gained control (defined as holding or dribbling a live ball inbounds) while batting the ball, this is a no-call situation. A simple batting of the ball is not control. For a bat of the ball to be control, in my humble opinion, the player would have to appear to catch and then throw the ball with one or both hands rather than to just bat it as if it were a volleyball spike.
|
|
Mon Jun 05, 2000, 06:56pm
|
|||
|
|||
quote: Mark, My Microsoft Word program is corrupt. Now what? 
|
|
Mon Jun 05, 2000, 09:40pm
|
|||
|
|||
|
coaching a 7th grade boys game this weekend. our player shoots a long 2. hits the
rim. ricochets to another of our players. he bats it back - beyond the half court line into our back court. our player grabs it. ref blows whistle. over and back is the call. is this the right call?
|
|
Mon Jun 05, 2000, 10:16pm
|
|||
|
|||
quote: After the shot was taken, team control had been lost. While the ball is being batted around, no team control has been re-established. Putting myself in the ref's shoes who made the call, he must've determined that it was a "controlled" batting of the ball. If your player intentionally batted it to his teammate knowing that he could retrieve it cleanly in the backcourt, then I believe the referee must have determined that the act was no different than catching the ball and throwing it.
|
|
Mon Jun 05, 2000, 10:51pm
|
|||
|
|||
|
thanks. i discussed it with the ref at next stoppage.he expressed a some doubt about his interpretation. he was thinking the last possesion was ours before the shot. anyway, we agreed the oft discussed - on this board - back court rules are surely tricky. i told him to look here for the right answer.
|
|
Tue Jun 06, 2000, 12:29am
|
|||
|
|||
|
This violation is an often discussed topic on this and other boards. It seems like every few months, the topic comes up. Here's the situation on this call. Please copy and paste it into a Word document and save for future reference.
There must be four elements present to have an over and back call. If even one of these elements is missing, there is no violation. No exceptions. The four elements are: 1) there must be team control 2) the ball must have achieved frontcourt status 3) the team in team control must be the last to touch the ball in their frontcourt and 4) that same team must be the first to touch the ball after it has been in their backcourt.
|
|
Tue Jun 06, 2000, 12:57am
|
|||
|
|||
|
number 26 -
Welocme to our site - Experienced refs do NOT have a problem with over and back and know the rule better than anybody. It is often a point of emphasis and there are numerous examples in our case book and illustrated book. You should come to this site as often as you can to learn the rules. For example, A1 is inbounding at half court. A1 passes to A2 who catches the ball in the frontcourt while airborne and lands on both feet in the backcourt with the ball. Is this over and back? Jack
|
|
Tue Jun 06, 2000, 01:41pm
|
|||
|
|||
quote: Jack - I'll let some of the newbies try to answer your question. I just wanted to say how fate works in mysterious ways. After discussing the over and back rule here yesterday, I had the "weird" call last night in a summer league game. A1 dribbling in front court. B1 slaps the ball off A1's leg into A's backcourt where it was recovered by A1. Over and back call - coach A yelled, "But she hit it." Like I've never heard THAT before. "It went off your player in the frontcourt into the backcourt where she touched it coach - that's the rule" was my reply. Maybe it's karma.
|
|
Tue Jun 06, 2000, 02:29pm
|
|||
|
|||
|
geez
you'll love this answer re:1/2 court inbound airborne landing in back court... i tell my players (and parents) you will learn the most important bball element from me i can teach you. never argue a ref's call. i, as a coach, and my players, and eventually the parents catch on, never ever argue any calls. or even come close. therefore, i assume the ref knows the rule of the question you are asking - makes the right call - and i don't spend even a second thinking about it. so, my answer is i don't know. but a good question. with regard to my initial over/back query, i hope i made it clear i asked the ref conversationally and politely during a play stoppage. and that was only because i thought a shot erased the possibility of back court. i can talk all day about our american athlete's lack of respect for refs - i.e. the misguided infatuation with the b knights and billy martins and john mcenroes of the world ... i look forward to this board because it reinforces how little i know about bball rules.
|
|
Tue Jun 06, 2000, 03:52pm
|
|||
|
|||
|
number 26
I didnt mean to be too harsh with you. I was just trying to clarify that refs that have been doing calling for lets say 3 or more years have got the over and back down like a book. They've seen it all. In my first game that I refed I blew an over and back call that cost a team the game and swore I wouldn't do that again if I could help it. It is very frustrating to the coaches and players to get this call wrong. Glad you have joined our group. Like Mark said I'll let some newbies take a crack at this one. Jack
|
|
Tue Jun 06, 2000, 05:50pm
|
|||
|
|||
|
I am not exactly a newby, but I'm not an official either and thought I would shoot a reply to see if it is right. I think you apply the "you are where you are til you get where you are going rule," meaning that the receiver was still front court while in the air and went backcourt only after catching the ball and landing backcourt - violation, same as if reciever had both feet on the ground front court and received it front court.
I feel for you guys trying to keep all of this straight and make the call in real time. I will say that most coaches only get parts of this rule, players about half, and refs tend to get it right, although I have seen the odd cases that are discussed here where the refs do not make the correct call. Usually however, I find myself amazed at the number of times I see situations like the ball off the leg call that are made correctly and done on the fly. (with one coach standing on the sidelines signalling deflection!)
|
|
Wed Jun 07, 2000, 02:14pm
|
|||
|
|||
|
If memory serves me This falls under exeption
#1 under backcourt violations, as long as both feet were off the ground and the player is the first to touch the ball he may land in the back court with out penalty.(NF)
|
|
Wed Jun 07, 2000, 03:46pm
|
|||
|
|||
quote: Congratulations PAULK. I don't know if you are a new official, but you are new to this board (at least under this name). You got this one right. Be prepared to chuckle at the fans who scream for a call on this.
|
 |
| Bookmarks |
|
|
Linear Mode
