Where's the ball?

stiffler3492

Don't have books on me at the moment, and this discussion came up between myself and a couple other officials this week at a summer game.

It seems so simple, yet we couldn't agree.

A1 has the ball near the division line in the frontcourt. As Lead, I have a common foul on B2 near the endline.

Where is the ball inbounded? At the spot of the foul, or where it was?

APG

Spot nearest where the foul occurred.

stiffler3492

Thank you. Do you have the rule reference so I can give it to the other guys?

APG

Rule 7, Section 5 Throw-in, Resuming Play

Art. 4... Designated out of bounds spot throw-in nearest the foul:

a. After a player-control foul, as in 4-19-6; a team control foul, as in 4-19-7; or after a common foul prior to the bonus rule being in effect, as in 4-19-2, any player of the offended team shall make the throw-in.

Scrapper1

The confusion may be due to the fact that after a double foul, if there is team control, the throw-in is administered at the spot closest to where the ball was. (4-36). But after a single personal foul, the ball is administered at the spot closest to the foul.

Adam

You're discussing this with other officials and they thought it was POI?

APG

Snaqwells wrote
You're discussing this with other officials and they thought it was POI?

I feel like this is a pretty basic rule that no official should have an issue with...I could see though how a layperson would have issue with this, cause it does seem kind of weird to inbound the ball on the baseline (yeah I said baseline instead of endline...sue me) when the ball is at halfcourt.

stiffler3492

Snaqwells wrote
You're discussing this with other officials and they thought it was POI?

At least one did. I was leaning toward what ended up being the correct answer, though APG is right, it does seem awkward.

Adam

stiffler3492 wrote
At least one did. I was leaning toward what ended up being the correct answer, though APG is right, it does seem awkward.

The key is to remember what the penalty is for; and in this case it has nothing to do with the ball. It probably seems awkward because typically, the off ball fouls occur near enough to the ball that it doesn't really matter.

Ask the same group of officials where they'd administer the throw-in for the following scenario:

A1 dribbling in the FC, the ball bounces off his foot into the BC. He chases it down and picks up the dribble again in the lane in the BC.

BillyMac

Snaqwells wrote
Ask the same group of officials where they'd administer the throw-in for the following scenario:

A1 is dribbling the ball, in his frontcourt, tableside, in the corner formed by the division line, and the sideline. Lead official calls A5 for a three second violation.

BillyMac

Snaqwells wrote
Ask the same group of officials where they'd administer the throw-in for the following scenario: A1 dribbling in the FC, the ball bounces off his foot into the BC. He chases it down and picks up the dribble again in the lane in the BC.

After a violation, the ball is awarded to the opponents for a throwin from an out of bounds spot nearest the violation. This is especially true for a backcourt violation, where the ball may not necessarily be put in play at the division line, but, rather, is always put back in play at the spot nearest the violation.

Adam

Yes, Billy, we all know where it goes. I'd be interested to see where Stiffler's friends would do it.

BillyMac

Snaqwells wrote
Yes, Billy, we all know where it goes.

We do? We all do? I will agree with you that you know where it goes, that I know where it goes, and that almost all Forum members, both esteemed members, and regular, dues-paying, rank and file, members, know where it goes, but haven't you ever had a partner, or observed a subvarsity official, spot the ball at the division line for all backcourt violations? That's why this is on the Mythbusters list, and deservedly so.

Raymond

BillyMac wrote
We do? We all do? I will agree with you that you know where it goes, that I know where it goes, and that almost all Forum members, both esteemed members, and regular, dues-paying, rank and file, members, know where it goes, but haven't you ever had a partner, or observed a subvarsity official, spot the ball at the division line for all backcourt violations? That's why this is on the Mythbusters list, and deservedly so.

I have plenty of partners who attempt to put the ball in play in the new back court for BC violations that occur near the division line. 🙄

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Snaqwells wrote
Yes, Billy, we all know where it goes. I'd be interested to see where Stiffler's friends would do it.

This doesn't have anything to do with hiding the salami does it. 😉

MTD, Sr.

tref

BillyMac wrote
We do? We all do? I will agree with you that you know where it goes, that I know where it goes, and that almost all Forum members, both esteemed members, and regular, dues-paying, rank and file, members, know where it goes, but haven't you ever had a partner, or observed a subvarsity official, spot the ball at the division line for all backcourt violations? That's why this is on the Mythbusters list, and deservedly so.

Had a HS game with one partner that went on to work the biggest game of the year & the other a DII official, who both agreed that the spot was closest to the ball on my off ball illegal screen 🙄
So it can happen at any level of play, don't try to stick that on the subvarsity guys.

Today, I had a backcourt violation pending as the offense debated whether or not to touch the ball rolling OOB. Finally touched below the FT line, I put it in play on the endline & the coach said he's never seen that before. Gotta shoot him an email tomorrow 😀