On Friday we played one of our two biggest rivals. They beat us in OT in the first meeting, at their gym in December. We ended up winning at home Friday by six points. Here are two seemingly unrelated situations from the game.

I only caught the tail end of this during the game, but I could see it all on the tape. During a timeout, our opponents substituted. The sub came to the table after the warning horn. The official noticed and did not allow the substitution.

With about 2:30 left in the game, about a four-point game at the time, the opponents' star player went down injured. The opposing coach went almost all the way to her (she was in the lane on his end of the court, he got maybe two steps away from her and about six steps onto the court) without being beckoned. She got up and decided she was okay to continue. The official (same one from earlier) came to the table to report the foul on the play, and I asked him if the player had to come out of the game since the coach came on the floor to check on her. He snapped at me that it's a technicality and if I wanted to make this game all technicalities the rest of the way, he could do that. I backed off and said I was just asking.

After the game I was more perturbed. I felt bad trying to get his player out of the game, but I get caught up in the game sometimes. I did apologize to the opposing coach afterward. But after he enforced the "no sub after the warning horn", and didn't enforce the "player must be replaced if the coach is beckoned or comes on to the court", I was left wondering which rules are technicalities and which rules are to be followed. I wish I could've said without repercussion, "if I give you a rule book, could you highlight the rules we are disregarding tonight?"

This is a tough call coach. If the coach isn't beckoned onto the court and he doesn't reach the player, I probably will let her stay in the game. I'm certainly not going to T the coach up for coming on the floor, either. When players go down, you as a coach know that your concern for their well-being out weighs your judgement. I don't think that these two situations are necessarily related. You yourself quoted the rule that the player must be subbed for if the coach is beckoned on the court which didn't happen here. If we are going strictly by the book, we would have to T the coach up for coming on the floor. One which most refs will pass on.

Hold on there.....
 

I believe the official felt that he had not "officially" beckoned the coach on the court. Even you admit this. The official's focus was on ensuring that the player was ok. You questioned him (diplomatically, I am sure :D and from your designated area, nonetheless :)) as he is coming to the table to report the foul that created this situation.
My perspective, I do not see anything wrong with his conduct.

Correct me if I'm wrong (and I'm sure someone will!) but doesn't the rule say something like "is beckoned OR comes on the floor"?

Yes, coach, it does say "is beckoned and/or comes onto the floor". Why, I don't know, because we are told that he has to be beckoned or he is not allowed to come on the floor and that is how we usually handle it. In your case, he wasn't beckoned, no need to put him at an unnecessary disadvantage caused by your actions, IMO.

I'm not a stickler for "technicalities" when it comes to injured players.

I don't expect a coach to wait to be beckoned if a player is injured. If the coach comes, then he was beckoned (after the fact, if necessary).

But should the coach come out, then the player goes out. I don't think you were out of line, coach.

Rich

[Edited by Rich Fronheiser on Jan 20th, 2003 at 09:56 AM]

10-5-2
 

The head coach and assistant coach(es) must remain seated on the bench at all times while the clock is running or is stopped to:

b. Attend an injured player when beckoned onto the court by an official.
----------------------------

Would the official be "justified" in giving a "T" for the coach entering the court? Yes.

Is it in the spirit of the game? NO, unless it interfered with the conclusion of this play, prior to the official's whistle or "beckoning".

I actually had a head coach ask me if he could come onto the court. I was so dumbfounded by this I almost forgot to answer.

TR

IMO she has got to go or the coach needs to burn a time out to keep her in. If on the other hand one of the crew had managed to stop him sooner - say within a few steps off the sideline - then I'll ignore it & his player can stay.

Quote:

...He snapped at me that it's a technicality and if I wanted to make this game all technicalities the rest of the way, he could do that. I backed off and said I was just asking...

I wasn't there, I don't know the history between you two guys, but just from what you wrote here this is a completely inappropriate response. You done good by not stooping to his level.

Quote:

..."if I give you a rule book, could you highlight the rules we are disregarding tonight?"

I think you should have taken the T. You were right & the ref knew it.

This play is a no brainer (and I should no because many coaches think I am brainless, but that is another thread). The Head Coach came on the court without being beckoned. This is not a technical foul, but the injured player has to go to the bench and the Head Coach has thirty seconds to replace the player once the injured player gets off the court.

No history between us. I think I've seen him work before but I can't say I remember him ever working one of my games.

As far as taking the T, well, like I said, it was a close game, and late. No way was I pushing this issue.

Mark, I agree with most of what you said,
However I would not give them thirty seconds to replace the injured player. They get to the sideline and I would tell them to bring the substitution. Get the player in the game and get it moving.

I agree with Rich. And -- what else is new? -- also with Dan. :)

Chuck

Actually, the rule change that allows a coach to buy an injured player back into the games makes this situation easier to handle. Instead of intentionally ignoring the rule that requires a substitution when a coach comes onto the court to tend to an injured player, an official now can tell the coach, "By rule, because you came onto the court, you must replace the injured player. However, you have the option of using a time out and keeping the player in the game."

This is the best comment yet. Excellent word, Stan.

I would NOT interpret the purpose of this rule as "the coach is forced to replace a player if he enters the court."

Letter of the law yes, but you know as well as I do that the coach spends 3/4 of the game on the court anyway - so when is he entering or not entering.

The intent of the rule is to get a new player into the game if the original player is injured such that they cannot continue. Cannot continue to me would be that as a player I am obviously injured or I am so concerned about my condition that I want the coach and trainer to examine me right where I lay - they must enter the court. It's not the concern of the coaches - it is the concern, or obvious injury, of the player that drives this.

In the original case of this thread the player after some delay got up and was ready to continue. Even if I jumped the gun and beckoned the coach and then the player immediately got up before there was any physical or verbal contact between the two (coach and player), I personally would disregard and let the player stay. My mistake to have beckoned.

If the whole thing can be cleaned up in 10 seconds or less - let's play some ball. If the player just lies on the floor waiting for assistance beckon the coach and we need a sub. This isn't a new way of getting an uncharged time out - player lies on the floor for 30 seconds and the coach won't enter when beckoned. No way! We need a sub, coach. You guys are messing with me and you will need a sub to continue.

I guess I personally would ask the player "Can you continue?" Give them about 5 seconds to either answer "No" or get up. If they can get up, give them another 5 seconds to really finalize their decision to continue. If the player is still hobbling around ask "Are you ready to go?" If the answer is "Yes." then hand in the ball. If "No." then get a sub.

An official's decision to call the coach has got to be a valid/worthy one because it also includes that now we need a substitue. If the coach obviously makes that decision for you and is on the floor examining (physically) his player then he has forced the issue and we need a substitute or a time out.

JMHO :)

Then, in my humble opinion, you would be wrong, Tony. That is, in fact, the purpose of the rule. If you can stop the coach from coming on the floor, fine. But if the coach comes on the floor, the player subs out. Again, just my opinion, but I don't see how you can get around the plain meaning of the rule.

Chuck

Tony, I think the level of play makes a huge difference in the situtation as you see it. Below HS, the coaches I have seen feel very parental about their players. If they think a player might be hurt, or just needs comforting, their (very appropriate) response is to want to get to them as quickly as possible. Maybe there are some who will manipulate this situation, even to the point of having a kid fake an injury, but I have not seen it. I agree they should play by the rules - take the player out, or burn a time-out, but don't penalize them because they care about their kids. Now HS and up, that's a different story.

If the team does not want to buy the injured player back into the game by taking a team timeout. Then the rules stipulate that the thirty seconds does not start until the injured player has left the court.