Player A1 penetrates the lane and goes up for layup. As he attempts the layup, B1 makes a play to contest the shot and A1, in mid-air, passes the ball to the perimeter . There is no player to receive or intercept the pass (no other player touched the ball)and A1 retrieves the ball and (a)holds the ball without moving either foot, (b) passes the ball to a team mate, (c) shoots the ball, or (d) dribbles the ball. Is there a violation in any or all of these situations.

Please answer with rule book citation as our association members came up with multiple answers ranging from "travel" to "double dribble" to "nothing" and all had rule book rationale for their decisions.

Thanks in advance for input.

Traveling in all of your situations.
(Rule #'s to follow)

Dude

The traveling occurs when he retrieves the ball, not when any of your 4 scenarios occurs.

80 hits and two replies. Thanks Dude and BktBllRef. I presume it is conclusive.....it is a travel! We only had 15 members at our meeting and had alot of different thoughts on this.

More replies are welcome to make me a little more comfortable with my report back to our group.

Again, I appreciate any and all or your feedback. This site has proven to be a place for a wealth of knowledge by people very serious about our officiating avocation.

Thanks to all

Thanks for posing yet another good sitch. This is true when you only see a couple of quality replies, (as I learned quickly)it is a consensus!!!

agree traveling--unless the ball hits the ground before A1 recovers--then Double dribble.
---They dribbled while penetrating the lane right?

In this situation no call isn't the best call...
i also think traveling

I understand the play to be that A1 was dribbling down the lane, then ends the dribble and/(while) jumps/(ing) for a shot, but then decides while in the air to pass the ball back out. A1 is then the first player to touch this pass.
After some thought, I believe that A1 has committed both a traveling violation and a double dribble violation. So either call is correct.
If the pass hit the floor before A1 retreived it, then this can be considered a dribble. 4-15-3. Since A1 has already dribbled before jumping this is a second dribble. 9-5
It is also a traveling violation for starting a dribble with the pivot foot off the floor. 4-43-3c
If the pass never hit the floor, then A1 has only traveled.
Lastly, if A1 somehow was able to penetrate the lane without dribbling and then does this, it is only a travel.

Romano, are you feeling alright? :p I agree - traveling.

I would call this one a travel once A1 is airborne and passes the ball he cannot retreive his own pass. In any case you better call something travel or double dribble (if A1 dribbled before he went airborne) because if you don't you ain't gonna have no behind left. Great question made me think. Keep it up.

[Edited by baldy1 on Jan 17th, 2003 at 01:26 PM]

FOR you dhodges007:
IN this situation I WILL CALL TRAVEL(only if it's o.k with you....)
p.s
what did i do??

Romano:

The smiley faces usually mean somone is just joking w/ you. They are not questioning you or attacking you as an offical. We like to joke around on this board...

O.K
I think sometimes i don't understand when you are just joking .
Meybe because i'm from a diffrent country.but from this moment when ever i see the smiley faces i will know that you are joking WITH me and not AT me....

MN 3 Sport Ref
only now i understand you'r replie(about me)-it's a good one...i think one of you'r best!!!!keep doing it.

Buckley --

I'm just having trouble physically seeing this happen. It's like the question on the test about the ball coming to rest in the backcourt. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to object to the physics of this!

I'm with you rainmaker. It sure would have made it easy on us if one of the other 9 players would have been aggressive to the ball and not allowed A1 to be the first to touch it. I guess when you put your livlihood in the hands of 16-17-18 year old kids you can be made to look stupid.

Keep the faith.

Buckley

Passing the ball is not the beginning of another dribble. The Rule Book states, "A dribble is ball movement caused by a player in control who bats (intentionally strikes the ball with the hand(s)) or pushes the ball to the floor once or several times." If you have feel that he passed the ball to the perimeter, you don't have another dribble and so you will not have double dribble. If he then retrieves the pass before the ball is touched by another player (regardless of whether it touched the floor or not), you can only have traveling. At least that's MH(umble)O.

This depends on what happens to the pass.
Please tell me how a pass which does not touch another player, but does bounce on the floor, and the player who threw it is then the first one to touch the ball, differs from a dribble. I say it does not.
Look closely at the rule that you quoted. I emphasize the words in bold.

Just because the ball travels horizontally for a while as it is going to the floor, does not mean that this motion does not qualify as a dribble. There is no requirement that the ball must start with a downward movement to qualify as a dribble.
Haven't you ever seen a player start a break by tossing the ball out in front of himself several feet, running after it, allowing it to hit the floor, and then upon catching up to it continue to dribble? In this play, the first bounce is considered a dribble. Examine the ruling at the end of 4.15.4 Sit E(b). "Since the ball did not touch the floor, the tossing and subsequent catch is not part of a dribble nor is it the start and end of a dribble."

This phrasing makes it clear that if the ball had been allowed to hit the floor, this action would have been considered a dribble and therefore no traveling violation would have occurred.