anoying travel rule

[dhodges007]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

Why do you presume both feet are on the floor? It doesn't say that. I answered based on what was written, not what I might presume.

Sorry, yes both feet are on the floor when the player catches it in my example.

[mick]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

Sounds to me like his right foot is his pivot.

YU.P., that works too.
And that's a judgement that we have to make.
We determine when A1 receives/controls the ball in relation to when the right foot moves.
Sounded to me like A1 had the ball, then moved.
Sounded to Tony like A1 was moving when the ball arrived.
It's so simple, I wonder why the fans don't get it.

[gsf23]

I think what the poster of this thread is trying to say is that too many travelling violations are called at the high levels of FIBA. I don't think he is talking about high school ball here.

How many times have you seen Allen Iverson called for a travel?? If you read the original thread he talks about the players at the HIGHEST levels. European pros get called for travelling a lot more than in the states. I think that is the rule he is referring too, and the differences he is referring to.

[hawkk]

But t has always seemd to me that the one travel calls that NBA refs DO call consistantly is pulling the pivot at the start of the move

[coach2]

This discussion is out of topic.

I think I have to be more specific.

When we get American players here it is obvious that they were used to a different way of looking at the travelrule.

It looked to us that all our U.S. players were allowed to move the pivot before the ball leaves the hand. There are no exceptions. All players played at top college level.

When they get the ball in the run the make a two count and then they start dribbling.

When they make an open step they first step and then they start dribbling. Everybody knows it, there is no questioning about it. It is a well known issue in Europe.

In fact I think this is the right natural way to start your dribble but it is called time after time. It is also obvious that it is not called in the US, witch must make the game more enjoyable because it is not interupted for moves that are in the flow of the action.

I am not a referee but I like to watch and coach basketball. As I have seen it for about 20 years now, I am sure that the American way of interpreting the rules is much more fun for the crowd, coach, players and referees.

[Edited by coach2 on Jan 15th, 2003 at 08:21 AM]

[coach2]

gsf23 is right!

[w_sohl]

It was my understanding (from a rules meeting) that a player could lift his pivot foot before starting a dribble or making a pass as long as the dribble was started or the ball was released on the pass befor the pivot foot was returned to the floor. Is this an incorrect rules interpretation?

[MN 3 Sport Ref]

Originally posted by w_sohl
It was my understanding (from a rules meeting) that a player could lift his pivot foot before starting a dribble or making a pass as long as the dribble was started or the ball was released on the pass befor the pivot foot was returned to the floor. Is this an incorrect rules interpretation?

You got it right (FED NC2A) Pass/shot must be released or dribble started before pivot is lifted. If this occurs nearly simultaneously it is legal.

[mick]

Originally posted by w_sohl
It was my understanding (from a rules meeting) that a player could lift his pivot foot before starting a dribble or making a pass as long as the dribble was started or the ball was released on the pass befor the pivot foot was returned to the floor. Is this an incorrect rules interpretation?

w_sohl,
Not quite right.
Check out Case 4.43.3 Situation C
That'll help.
mick

[Pirate]

Simply put, the dribble must be started before the pivot foot is lifted. The pass and shot can be made/completed while the pivot foot is lifted as long as the pivot foot does not return to the floor before completion of the pass/shot.

[w_sohl]

Originally posted by MN 3 Sport Ref

You got it right (FED NC2A) Pass/shot must be released or dribble started before pivot is lifted. If this occurs nearly simultaneously it is legal.

You say I got it right in your post but contridict my statement. Now I am really confused.

[MN 3 Sport Ref]

Originally posted by w_sohl

You say I got it right in your post but contridict my statement. Now I am really confused.

It is your quote that is contradicting. How can a player start a dribble before he starts a dribble???

"BEFORE starting a dribble or making a pass as long as the dribble was started"

I simply overlooked your error as I thought you did not mean to word it that way.

[dhodges007]

Originally posted by Pirate
Simply put, the dribble must be started before the pivot foot is lifted. The pass and shot can be made/completed while the pivot foot is lifted as long as the pivot foot does not return to the floor before completion of the pass/shot.

That's correct. You have to dribble before the pivot foot is lifted, otherwise travel. You can lift the pivot foot before you shoot or pass; however, it can not come back down. If so -- travel.

[Hawks Coach]

There are at least two conflicting lines of thought on this thread, so lets go straight to the rules.

Rule 4, SECTION 43 TRAVELING
ART. 3 . . . After coming to a stop and establishing a pivot foot:
a. The pivot foot may be lifted, but not returned to the floor, before the ball is released on a pass or try for goal.
b. If the player jumps, neither foot may be returned to the floor before the ball is released on a pass or try for goal.
c. The pivot foot may not be lifted before the ball is released, to start a dribble.

I have seen it said that you can lift in all cases, lift in none of the cases, and the correct rule which is stated above. The dribble is different than the shot or pass by rule.

[w_sohl]

Originally posted by Hawks Coach
There are at least two conflicting lines of thought on this thread, so lets go straight to the rules.

Rule 4, SECTION 43 TRAVELING
ART. 3 . . . After coming to a stop and establishing a pivot foot:
a. The pivot foot may be lifted, but not returned to the floor, before the ball is released on a pass or try for goal.
b. If the player jumps, neither foot may be returned to the floor before the ball is released on a pass or try for goal.
c. The pivot foot may not be lifted before the ball is released, to start a dribble.

I have seen it said that you can lift in all cases, lift in none of the cases, and the correct rule which is stated above. The dribble is different than the shot or pass by rule.

I would have gotten it right 2/3 of the time before, but now I will get it right all of the time....

I was going to look it up later anyway, thanks for saving me the time Coach