AAU Coaches Vs HS Coaches
 

Hello,

I will be starting to work some AAU club basketball for 14 and under and was wondering if your exeperiences with AAU youth coaches was different from HS Coaches?

In otherwords, are the Youth Coaches bigger knuckleheads?? :)

In general...AAU coaches are worse than your high school coaches. High school coaches have more accountability than your AAU coaches.

Exactly. High School coaches are usually teachers or they are accountable to a school district. If they act up they can lose their jobs or their actions can affect their overall job as a teacher or administrator. AAU coaches paid some money to enter a tournament.

Peace

AAU coaches definitely behave worse overall in general.

I wouldn't walk into a gym with the idea that AAU coaches are any different, I've met some very good and knowledgeable people. Your BS threshold may be much shorter, but a coach is a coach and taking care of business is taking care of business. At the 14U level, I would pay more attention to the knuckleheads on the court.

The setting is different and that is all that matters. And if that was not the case, why would your BS threshold be different and you are treating everything the same? ;)

Peace

Disagree. Preparing yourself to deal with aspiring Coach Ks isn't a bad thing. As has been stated, the fact is that AAU coaches generally behave poorly because they aren't accountable to anyone. Also because, especially at the lower levels, they tend to be less experienced as coaches. Are there exceptions? Sure, but you'll recognize them soon enough.

Nirvana
 

I worked a local tournament (not AAU, just community hosted) one time where the posted rule was that if the HC gets tossed, the team is out.

Best behaved coaches. Ever.

Exceptions to what? I don't work much AAU basketball, but in my experience obnoxious coaches are not rare.

As for the idea of girding one's loins: I approach every coach the same way, with respect. If I get respect back, then we're good. If not, then I know how to deal with it (ignore, warn, whack, as needed). No special preparation needed.

In my experience, if you go into a game looking for conflict, you can generally find it (and worsen it). Not professional, IMO.

Exceptions to the rule. The rule being poor behavior.

You do not have to go into any game looking for conflict, it is already there. How you deal with it is the issue. And AAU coaches tend to think all that yelling and screaming works or makes them get what they want. The point is that if a HS coach gets out of line they can lose a lot more than a game. An AAU coach still will coach and often answers to no one, even the parents of the kids. It really does not matter how much respect you give a coach, they have to have some standards or morals to behave a certain way.

Also I have been attending a D2 camp the last several years where the basketball is an AAU Tournament. These are all officials that are very well trained and are in great shape and the things I have seen said to them or me I never see at the HS level. It is common that the person that runs the camp or a clinician has to talk to these stupid coaches after a game about something when they are dealt with very professionally.

We can go in with the best of intentions that does not mean we will not have to deal with knuckleheads the same.

Peace

Six of One, half-dozen of another.....
 

+1

I treat em all alike......to start.

There is a big difference between going into a game "looking for conflict" and going into a game knowing that AAU coaches tend to be bigger problems than "normal" coaches.

Point blank, PERIOD!

I called as many Ts in my last AAU tournament as I did the WHOLE HS SEASON. The players act like the coaches, who are often parents making sure their kid gets to play all the time. And if the coach is a jerk, the players often follow suit. As Jeff said, there is little accountability. I don't approach games like there is going to be trouble, but I don't wait until 4 o'clock to serve tea.

Even HS coaches loathe AAU coaches.

Exactly.

The question wasn't should the OP "treat them differently?". It was "have our experiences been different?" That would be a resounding "yes" from me.

I - 95 corridor..........
 

Go to any AAU tourney anywhere from NY to Richmond, Va. and I guarantee you will hear the following............


HOW LONG??? HOW LONG????? - that is AAU speak for 3 seconds.


CHEATIN REFS - every momma's calling card for the fact that her baby is gettin hosed....


YO THIS AIN'T THE LEAGUE - should be a continous motion play


AND 1 - everytime somone goes to the basket, I need a foul


RUN RUN RUN - we can't run a 1 / 2 ct set


As far as coaches boxes go.............. good luck

What happens if you get off on I-64 East and attend games at the Boo Williams SportsPlex? :D

I think in the AAU tournament I worked last weekend, there was a tiebreaker that counted the number of times each team said "AND 1". Occasions where they yelled that and the shot failed to go in must have been worth double. :D

A little surprising to me, I did not have to issue a single T. Had one player get frustrated with me for not calling a foul after he dribbled into two stationary defenders and fell down but that was hit. His coach got on him about that too. :eek:

MS - You'll appreciate this.....
 

Heard a good one from a coach in a tourney in Fairfax last weekend.

"Hey, keep your hands off em! They're calling it tight here. We're not in PG County anymore!"

A new one for me, but, I liked it!

PS - for all you "non-locals" PG can be kind of a rough county.

Proves how dumb they are. They usually are looking for a bailout and the proper whine should be "And Two".

The worst coach I experienced in an AAU tourney was actually a HS coach. :eek:

I observed an AAU-only coach that was much worse, but wan't on the game. Most of the AAU coaches I've had in recent years have been decent guys.

Me too. I rang him up in the AAU game. He was a relative peach in the HS games I've worked with him.

AAU tournament a few weeks ago. Boys U-17 game. One coach was an older gentleman I recognized from somewhere - turns out he was an Assistant to George Karl when with the Seattle Sonics. Other coach was a young guy - looked like he was maybe 22 or so...

Older guy was a complete class act. I absolutely blew a PC call against one of his kids and all he said was "Joey - get you butt back on defense right now."

Younger guy was a completely different story...I gave him the first T with about 2 min. to go in first half. He was 10 feet out on the court screaming at one of my partners. Said partner gave him the second T about 5 min. into the second half for laying a string of f-bombs on us. And he was winning by 15 or 16 points.

Some AAu coaches get it, and some don't.

Sounds like he got it. Attaboy.

This is why I love my province's fair play policy. We're been told by our province's ED that there is zero tolerance with this BS. Zero also means Nada, Nil, and Zilch.

If some momma is yelling out "CHEATIN REF"... take care of business and toss her right away. Why someone might put up with stuff like this is beyond me.

More of the same??? Unless, BNR is on the game.

A coach is a coach is a coach in my book.

I have only tossed one coach in 19 years (19 years???? God, I'm getting old :( ) of officiating. It was an AAU coach.

Having said that, my general experience has been that the overwhelming majority have been decent guys/gals.

If a parent is ejected here, their child is ejected as well. Talk about cleaning things up, we rarely have a problem with parents anymore.

Exactly.

Because AAU has gotten more competitive and organized almost every year, many AAU coaches are also high school assistants or head coaches, many at winning schools. And overall, the quality of AAU coaches in general has gotten better in terms of knowing and teaching the game.

As for their behavior that is a complete result of the setting as others have stated. They are less accountable and have less to lose in most AAU settings. So the same coach could be much more of a problem during the summer than he is in the winter.

In top level AAU settings you will find the overall coaching behavior similar to high school. This is because at this level, they are coaching future D-1 players, and a lot of AAU coaches are now getting college jobs. So they have a lot to lose and behave accordingly.

It is the rest of AAU where the overall atmosphere can be more challenging for an official. The coaches can be worse BUT the biggest problem, by far IMO, is the fans. They are louder, more ignorant, and even more blinded by their bias than fans during the scholastic season. And like the coaches, it's often the same fans but their behavior is much worse. And they are often crammed right by the court because of the setting.

It's all about the setting.

Bad News - My apologies !!!!!!!!!!!!
 

I forgot to include your neck of the woods in my statement.


Yes all those things that I have mentioned happen at BW Complex as well.


I look foward to hearing all that stuff in a few weeks when I go down there for a camp !!!!!

That is classic !!!!!!!!!
 

P. G County home of the following NBA "Stars"

Kevin Durant / Michael Beasley / Jarrett Jack / Delonte West

Grun - you know as well as i do they were all public school kids "from the hood"

there were no WCAC kids on that team........


Everything in PG County is "5 out" with no half court sets !!!!!!!!!!


BALLIN IN THE HOOD !!!!!!!!

When? My office is literally 5 minutes from the complex.

Check your private messages.

You are exactly right the higher the level the better they likely will behave. But as I said, the main reason AAU coaches act that way is because many of the tournament directors control the conduct and they often are being paid by the AAU teams to participate. Those TD do not want to lose money or prestige if they get rid of a coach or their fans for bad behavior. If you have a TD that does not put up with that kind of behavior or understands the value in having good officials work their tournament (which might include an evaluation camp), then a lot of that behavior will continue. When I have had these tournaments while attending a camp, there seems to be a very good understanding of between the persons that run the camp and the TD. Also depending on the tournament there might be some high profile coaches and programs around and their conduct could affect other opportunities including their kids that are being observed.

Peace

I have worked AAU over the years from Nationals, Showcases, and in between. AAU coaches seem to be less coaches and more of players themselves. Most of them act like kids and you generally see more coaches get kicked out, tech'd, or told to shutup than you would in a High School game. It is very frustrating and can be very annoying. But in the end I have a good time with it. Its funny to see how a lot of coaches act while I am waiting for another game to start.

Years ago, while training a HS girl and a HS boy to ref in our local kids ref league, we had a third grade boys coach show up for his first game in a three piece suit and a "Pat Riley" haircut holding a clipboard with magnetic pieces on it. Yeah - I said third grade. I was standing next to the table advising the two refs. The boy was in his second year with us and the girl was in her first. In fact, it was her first game ever. The guy was kind of a jerk from the get-go. About three minutes into the game, he threw up his hands and screamed about a call she made (which was an absolutely correct call, BTW). She gave him the stop sign and told him to sit down (our league has no coaching box and coaches may stand only to request a timeout). He told her he'd "sit down when he was good and ready to and not before". She looked over at me. I nodded. She teed him up. He screamed "TECHNICAL!?!?!?" at the top of his lungs and threw his clipboard down. She looked at me again and I nodded again. WHACK - he gone. I had to step in and get him to leave. She then came over and asked me if she did the right thing. It was all I could do to not lean over and give her a great big hug. She stayed with our organization through her HS years but left after that, unfortunately.

There are rules here that prohibit HS coaches from coaching AAU teams. For that reason, I see a lot of wannabes, not professional coaches.

HS coaches loathe AAU coaches for the facts that:
1- Most are more focused on indivduals than actual team basketball.
2- They teach principles that are contrary to what most HS coaches coach.
3- They attempt to recruit kids to different high schools.

I will agree that AAU coaching has improved over what it was 10 years ago. However, I still see a real knucklehead more often in AAU then in HS ball.

The Milford Mudlarks ...
 

Not Gil Thorp. He's different. Always a perfect gentleman. I've never seen him get a technical foul, or get ejected from a game, and he coaches basketball, football, and baseball, and has been doing it at Milford High School for fifty-three years.

http://imgsrv.gocomics.com/dim/?fh=c...c5a785eabac264

Bold - nice, very professional

The rest is why I try to avoid preparing for AAU coaches any more than a varsity coach.

I'm not sure why acknowledging the increased likelihood of knuckleheadedness is a bad thing. It's not difficult for me to expect poor behavior and be surprised by angels standing on the sideline.

It's the same as the saying, "anticipate the play but not the call." Knowing what to expect prevents you from being caught off guard when the coach starts chirping from the opening tip.

I do not get this way of thinking either. Most of the time nothing major happens, but some coaches you have to be more proactive with to prevent a problem.

+1

Peace

Some choose to react to the unknown, others choose to respond to what they prepared for. Go figure...

Some people just don't go around living with the expectation of a bad thing happening, just to be surprised by all the good things. We each have our own way of thinking, more power to you and yours. Mine is working for me.

If you're caught off guard by a chirping coach, then maybe you haven't experienced many chirping coaches, not necessarily that you're working an AAU game. I guess western PA is the only area of the country where you can find a chirping coach, from the opening tip mind you, at the all accountable interscholastic level.

From my experience, I do believe the likelihood of knuckleheadedness exists at the AAU level. I just think it's more likely to happen inside the lines, which is why I pointed that out in my initial response.

I'm always looking to improve and all ears. Please share your methods of preparing for an AAU tournament coach.

Aren't we all...

I roll out of the rack, hit my knees & ask the Lord to give me the strength to deal with the Phil Jackson wanna-bes.
If I have to run any of these idiots & they should follow me to my car, Lord please let me get to my glovebox before they get to me.

Amen!

Then, I listen to my resolution conflict & effective communication CDs over breakfast.

I pity the fool that messes with the tref...

You'll actually see that Phil Jackson is relatively calm during a game...he didn't receive a T this year. He does most of his "work" before/after the game. ;)

Now Rick Carlisle (Dallas Mavericks) got wrong up 10 times this year along with Stan Van Gundy (Orlando Magic) 9 times.

Let me get this straight. So if you go somewhere to work a game and you know the league you are about to work a game does not provide a shower, you go to the game expecting to get a shower? I do not know about you, but when I know certain things are likely, I approach that situation appropriately. I do not expect a AAU coach to behave in the same way a HS coach will when the HS coach has probably been trained or had some standards to be a coach of their team. An AAU coach can be a coach by fronting the money and being the person that makes all the decisions.

Again, another fallacy. I have never been caught off guard by a coach, but I know I can say things to HS coaches and they will stop in their tracks. Again, HS coaches are representing more than just themselves or those kids. They are often representing a community and an administration. If they fly off the handle and use language and I eject them from a game, that information goes into their file for their job. And they will be automatically suspended for a game and depending on the further actions might lose games. I have been involved in both an AAU and HS game where a coach followed me and my partner after the game was over. The HS situations the coach have been suspended heavily and the AAU game they were able to coach the next game. It is absurd for you to say an official cannot handle a coach when they are aware of the actions that AAU coaches have been involved in.

That is not the experience of many officials I know. Another reason why many officials here and in many places refuse to work those games. ;)

I do not have any special methods. I just know that things I say to a HS coach are likely to work and an AAU coach they will not likely work. This is not upsetting to me, just a fact when you work AAU games.

Peace

Although a bit dramatic, I appreciate the detail.

If that's what I needed to do prior to working an AAU tournament, I might reconsider.

I forgot the :D

Yeah, its not that serious! But being prepared for what may possibly occur (which is more likely in a AAU setting than in HS) is not a bad thing.

AAU Game Report
 

Just worked 6 AAU games this weekend (2 each day F/S/S)....

I had a team from Seattle that goes by the name of GameTime on two different occasions...they won once and lost once, both close games with the loss in the 3rd place game. The coach and the players were a shining example of what sportsmanship should be.

Except for one, all of the teams I had were actually quite good but this one stood out above the rest.

Had 5 games yesterday. USSSA, but to me they are all AAU. The assignor indicated that there was one coach ejection in 163 games. A report goes to national for those. I issued one coach T. Had to go talk to him afterward because he kept standing up. He listened and sat down and stayed that way. Most of the coaches were able to ask questions of plays without being knuckleheads and they got explanations of plays and rulings as a result. All teams were 5th/6th grade boys and we didn't have an issue with most of them either.

The guy that got tossed? His team lost by 30. So, obviously he didn't have must talent coaching, either.

AAU coaches can be MUCH worse. There is no accountability. For example if a HS coach gets ejected, they work for the AD.. often times there is no recourse for an AAU coach's actions. Most of them are just there to coach their players and will never cause an issue.

Right ON !!!!!!!!!
 

There was a bench clearing brawl in a women's game 16u in Baltimore this weekend !!!!!

They don't call it Bloodymore for anything !!!!!!!!!!!

I don't think you should go into an AAU game with any preconceived notions or a short leash for the coach. However, you need to keep in mind that the environment is different than a sanctioned (by HS association or NCAA) contest. Most likely you do not have dedicated game management and if you do, they are probably covering several courts, etc.

I hold the same standards regarding bench decorum in a summer game as I do the season - I only know one way to do things. I have to be ready for different reactions or challenges on the AAU circuit.

[QUOTE= I have never been caught off guard by a coach, [/QUOTE]

JR - You have NEVER been caught off guard by a coach? You must either have a bunch of saints in Chicago or you have them scared stiff!

One of the reasons I say this is because I know where I am when I work and never assume that all coaches are angels. Usually I am surprised in certain places when they behave like angels. I learned this lesson pretty early on in my career when I worked all levels and leagues.

Peace

This is why.....
 

This quote is once again why I wanted to make sure it was "understood" that "that" mikeb is NOT "this" Mike B.

"Shut up" is certainly not a practiced method of mine for asking a coach to try and limit the direction of his yelling in the direction of his players.

I don't understand what your trying to prove to anyone?
I don't care what a coach says to his players thats between him,the player, the team, and maybe the parents. So you saying that is based on your own opinion not mine. I would not care if a coach is yelling at his players thats not my business and not yours. I am there to officiate the game.

That's not what he was saying, he's saying he would never tell a coach to shut up.

The comment on yelling was meant like this: "Coach, yell at your players, not me."

And you could care less if they are out of their box as long as they arent yelling at you, right?

Good point, T. I do "care" what the coach is yelling at his players, although 99% of the time it doesn't matter.

He doesn't get to denigrate the officials while he talks to his players. "I wasn't talking to you."

He doesn't get to use obsenity towards his players.

He doesn't get to threaten the other team by talking to his players. "Johnny, if he looks at you funny, take him out of the knees!" "Yes, Sensei."

I would say I don't care 95 percent of the time...he's not going to use a talk with his players as a back handed way to berate the officials, and I'll certainly take action for directing a player to commit an unsporting action.

I'd be a lot slower to take action about "obscenity" towards a player though.

Depends on the setting, volume & the word...

Agreed. We've been told specifically that talking to his players is not an excuse for using obsenities; but I have yet to need to enforce this. The bar is pretty high, IMO.

What about Ty Lawson, Nolan Smith, Jeff Green, Cunningham (forgot his first name), Sam Young...I know I'm forgetting someone.

PG county, and the DC area, produces a lot of NBA players. For the record, Durant, Lawson and I'm sure some of the others mentioned didn't go to public Schools. Durant went to Maryland Christian (I think that is the official name), Oak Hill and then Montrose Christian.

Inexperienced coaches
 

If the individual or group that is organizing the event have their poop in a pile, things should go pretty smoothly, odd jerk-coach not withstanding.

If the event is disorganized, expect to have a coaches who believe they can behave like Bob Knight and get away with it, and players who think acting like Rasheed Wallace is appropriate. Stay as unemotional as possible, give out the T's as needed, and let the kids play the game.

I have also seen these types of games where the coaches don't have a clue; they basically just drove the van so the kids could get to the game. They will be the type that will either sit there and never say or word, or they will be the ones yelling "three seconds!" as shot after shot after shot goes up in the key.

I wrote a couple of weeks ago about a tourney I worked where if anybody received a technical, it was an automatic fine, and the player/coach was not allowed to participate until the fine was paid. Never had a problem.

Tome - Couldn't name all of them. Thanks for the additions..... Durant went to National Christian Academy as a sophomore, Patrick Ewing, Jr. was also part of that team.