Me and my reffing partners were reffing a game and it was in the 2nd half with about 4 minutes left and one of the team that was ahead had the ball they were bringing the ball up the court and the guard traveled and my partner thought he called time-out, and he had not made any signal for a time-out whatsoever. My partner asked him if he called a time-out and he said yes. He said yes and this play cost the other team the game. What do you think about this

NCAA Ref -

If you definitely saw the player travel why didn't you call it? Even if the call is outside your primary area, if you definitely had a travel, I would have called it. Were you guessing or did you definitely see the player travel? As far as giving a timeout, I give the timeout only when I am SURE the team has called a timeout. I wouldn't ask them if they called a timeout. This situation could have been avoided.

This is a good example why you don't make calls out of your primary. Going by what you said, your partner HEARD a TO called, then the travel, which is not a travel since your partner recognized the TO before the travel.

"Me and my partners" sounds like a 3 man crew. If you saw the travel you should have called it. There is nothing wrong with a slow whistle coming from another ref or even a double whistle using a 3 man crew. Still I am puzzled how with 4 MINUTES left that the TO cost the team the game. BE SURE the time out was called- if not sure don't call it. Also, with a 3 man crew a coach is usually close enough to one of the 3 officials to scream for a timeout himself. I want the players on the court to decide the game, not the officials, especially late in the game.

Bart, (1) I don't believe NCAA said the travel occurred outside his primary area. NCAA - What position were you in at the time? If the play was coming at you .. and you see a travel...make the call and (2) I disagree with never calling outside primary -- sometimes you have to make a call outside your primary area (e.g., 3 seconds)especially with this partner who doesn't seem to be too sure of anything including whether a timeout was called and (3) never ASK player whether they called a timeout.

This is tough. I don't agree with your partner asking if a TO was requested, I do agree that you should not have called that out of primary. Assuming you were in the proper spot, you would not have heard a verbal TO request.

I also find it hard to believe this call cost B the game. I find it impossible to say any call or no-call costs teams games. There are so many missed FT's, travels, balls chucked OOB, bricked lay-ups, and dumb 3 point attempts that actually lose games, that it is weak to blame a loss on a ref.

I would never ask a player if he called a TO, any smart player especially if he has commited a violation will say yes. However, I see no way that this call with four minutes left cost a team the game. Whether you should have made the travel call, call the obvious!... I can't say because I did not see the play.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Geneva">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by slow_whistle:
"Me and my partners" sounds like a 3 man crew. If you saw the travel you should have called it. There is nothing wrong with a slow whistle coming from another ref or even a double whistle using a 3 man crew. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ditto to most of these responses. However, I would counter that if the travel occured in another person's primary, one ought to be VERY cautious in calling it from elsewhere. Too many times have I had guys call a travel or double-dribble that was clearly in my primary and I had a good look at (and had a no-call on). If you trust your partner, and perhaps even if you don't, you won't make that call unless it's on the "border" between your primaries or in areas of dual coverage. That's why we have primaries, after all, the assumption being that I have the better angle and look at something if it's in my primary.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Geneva">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Todd VandenAkker:
Ditto to most of these responses. However, I would counter that if the travel occured in another person's primary, one ought to be VERY cautious in calling it from elsewhere. Too many times have I had guys call a travel or double-dribble that was clearly in my primary and I had a good look at (and had a no-call on). If you trust your partner, and perhaps even if you don't, you won't make that call unless it's on the "border" between your primaries or in areas of dual coverage. That's why we have primaries, after all, the assumption being that I have the better angle and look at something if it's in my primary.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Todd,
I agree entirely with your statement. What I was referring to were the gray areas of the primaries when I meant there is no harm in a double whistle or a slow whistle if you saw the play and your partner missed it on an obvious violation or foul. Good point, well taken. Yes, an experienced 3 man crew would trust their partners. http://www.refereeforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

we all make mistakes. sounds like your partner was anticipating alittle bit. in close game should always be on your toes to try not cost a team the game. he should have made absolutely sure timeout was called before hitting whistle! if he is like the rest of us, he will NEVER make that mistake again. i feel that is what keeps this job interesting. if we never screw up it would be boring.