QUESTION:

A1 is running toward A's goal but is looking back to receive a pass. B1 takes a position in the path of A1 while A1 is 10 feet away from B1...A1 receives the ball and before taking a step contacts B1.
Since the position of B1 is legal when A1 has the ball, the contact is ________?

a. Block by B1

b. Player Control by A1

c. Charging by A1

Which of the above answers "best" describes the situation per NFHS rules? a, b, or c?

Dude

Yes.

B had legal position whether A had received the ball or not, so A is out the window.

Either B or C could be correct:

"Charging" is a foul by a player with or without the ball.

"PC" is a foul by a player with the ball, but can be charging or holding, or pushing, or illegal use of hands, or ...

I'd guess that the answer desired is B, since that's the signal used at the table.

It is a charge on player A1 since player B1 already eatablished his/her legal position when player A1 made contact with player B1.

NFHS

It is a player control foul by A1 since he had caught (controlled) the ball before the contact. IMO
Off to Maine!

what if A1 has gone airborne to catch this pass and is still airborne (with control of the ball) when he/she crunches B1? I've had many vets tell me this would not be a PC foul cause "you gotta at least let the player land!" I don't see anywhere in the Fed rules where it says that, so if B1 had established that legal guarding position, once A1 has the ball, time & distance no longer matter, and the foul should be a PC

If B had legal position before A went airborne, the foul is on A.

If B doesn't get the position until after A is airborne, the foul is on B, even if A has the ball before going airborn, or gets the ball while airborne.

Very well answered and explained, bob jenkins...and I would have "guessed" answer B also.(Player control)
But, per the NFHS Case book...10.6.3 SITUATION D...the exact wording is "charging by A1".
This seems to me to be an obvious "player control" foul, and as bob jenkins stated, that is the signal used at the table...so I am wondering why the Case book uses the word "charging". Hmmmmmmmmm?

Dude
P.S. At least the book didn't say "offensive foul"...;)

Well, you can't "player control." In order for a foul to be a player control foul, it needs to be a foul first. Hell, you could have a blocking foul on A1 which would be PC, but he blocked.

In regards to the catch-land-crash (or catch-air-crash) situation - control is defined as holding or dribbling a live ball inbounds. While airborne, you are inbounds (assuming A2 did not jump from OOB) until you touch something that is OOB. Therefore, you have control once you catch the ball in the air - player control foul upon landing and crashing.

Some of you might care less but the pro spin on this is that a block should be called. When a player receives a pass outside the lower defensive box (i.e. post up area) he must be given time and distance to avoid contact. I actually prefer the high school and college interpretation on this play but I have to call it like our rule book says.

That's my point -- it was charging, by a player with the ball, so it was also a PC foul.

Both answers are correct, but not complete.

Eli,

Does this apply even if the defender has been standing in the exact same spot for the last 10 seconds? I know that's unlikely, but I'm curious.

Chuck

Chuck,
I was wondering the same thing.
I wonder if the players' union, advertisers, or insurance underwriters come into play to prevent injuries or "play slow-downs".
mick

Yep, unfortunately it does. Even if the player is there for the last 10 seconds it is still a block. Now if the player catches a pass inside the LDB (i.e. post up area) he does not have to be given time and distance. Also, if a player is airbourne as someone mentioned earlier we have a rule for that as well. If a player is airbourne to catch a pass outside the LDB he must given room to land and then change direction. If a player is airbourne to catch a pass inside the LDB he must given room to land. I asked someone high up the reasoning for this rule and I was told that they don't want players doing cheap little tricks to draw fouls. Meaning that if a weakside defender saw a lob post entry pass coming into the center they did not want him running over there and drawing a charge on him when the center didn't see him and had no chance to avoid contact. They want that defender to play defense, not to try to trick the offensive player and draw an offensive foul by getting to the spot where he needed to land first. Also, the big reason for this rule I was told was for outlet passes after a defensive rebound. The Boston Celtics of the 60's used to always have their guards run up to where they saw the outlet pass coming for the sole purpose to draw a cheap offensive foul. They had no purpose of playing defense. And mainly for this two reasons the rule was written in the NBA. Now I asked about the play where the guy is there for ten seconds and I was told that the rule wasn't perfect and there is some situations that are unfair. Again, I actually prefer the high school and college interpretation but above is the reasoning for the pro rule, and I'll have to admit their reasoning has some merit.

Mick, good point, "play slow-downs" I am sure is a big factor why the pro game has that rule. They want free flowing movement and fast breaks.