Hi, I've posted once before, and I am not an officiator.

I play with someone who does this:

While a player is dribbling the ball, the defender tries to either steal or tap the ball away (no infraction). The dribbler makes a fist with the non-dribbling hand and sticks that same arm out to prevent the player from getting closer. Contact between the two players is often made. Is this legal? Often, this move by the dribbler is more like a swing against the defending player. I got hit pretty hard a few times while playing (good) defense.

Judgement call. It is legal to make a fist and hold out your arm to help prevent the def. from getting the ball. However, if the player swung his arm and hit the def. this could be a foul. Would have to see the play. of course in pick-up ball- not a foul. http://www.refereeforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

As Bart said it is legal to put out your arm to keep a defender away from you and the ball.
However, the key is when does the actions of the dribbler illegally keep the defender away. Pushing, swinging, holding...these all would dictate a 'player control' foul against the dribbler.
There are other situations which people do not understand such as a player moving down the court or setting a screen for a dribbler. Until there is contact the action is not illegal. When the defender makes contact, then the action is illegal and a foul should be called.
It is good that players also try to learn the rules. It imcreases their knowledge of the game and improves the overall quality of the sport.

NF Rule 10.6.1
SECTION 6 CONTACT
"ART. 1 . . . A player may NOT use the forearm and hand to prevent an opponent from attacking the ball during a dribble or when throwing for goal. "

I disagree with the 2 answers you have received so far. If an offesive player is using the left forearm to protect the ball while dribbling with the right hand, contact is the responsibility of the dribbler and is a PC foul. Not calling this provides a great illegal advantage to the dribbler by preventing the defense the opportunity for a steal.

J.C.

Again its judgement. I don't think holding your arm out is a foul. I think its the intent of the rule to say a player with the ball can't hold or use his arm out in an extended manor that would give him an advantage. Are you saying the dribbler would have to keep his arm down?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Geneva">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bart Tyson:
Again its judgement. I don't think holding your arm out is a foul. I think its the intent of the rule to say a player with the ball can't hold or use his arm out in an extended manor that would give him an advantage. Are you saying the dribbler would have to keep his arm down?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, it's judgment. And, no, the dribbler doesn't have to keep his arm down. But, the original situation had the dribbler hold his arm out to prevent the defense from stealing the ball and made contact. That seems to be to fit your criteria of "extended manor [sic] that would give him an advantage."

I agree with SC (?) -- I'd be inclined to call the foul, as this was described.

The judgment comes in when you're trying to determine if an advantage was gained, but the only reason a dribbler would have his forearm up to begin with would be in trying to keep the defense away from the ball (after all, it's not a "natural" way to be dribbling). No foul, of course, if contact is not made, but if there IS contact then we have to determine if it is sufficient to call a foul. If it's an "exaggerated" arm out, as young players often tend to do, then it doesn't require a great deal of contact to gain an advantage. 'Course, with younger players I'm first going to explain to them NOT to hold their arm up and out before I call a foul on them.

Thanks for the responses guys. It still sounds like a questionable call that could go either as a no-call or as an offensive foul. Because this is not played in an "organized" game with officiators, the call would not be made.

I do feel that, in this player's case, that it is a foul. I would think that if the dribbler's fist and arm were out there before I made an attempt to bat the ball away, then no call. But it is a different story when I make an attempt at the ball and my arm or other part of my body is hit by the player. (We're not that young either).

I saw quite a bit of this use of the left forearm to protect the ball in the Big Ten especially by Michigan State. If the forearm is just out there --- ok. But if defender goes for steal and the forearm is used to push or swipe at defenders arm --- its a foul. Same thing applies when using non-shooting arm to protect a hook shot. Of course, I used to get away with that alot in HS. *grin*

All players are entitled to a spot on the floor. Did the forearm move you from your spot or did the forearm merely guard the ball? Sounds to me like the a fould should have been called if the forearm or fist was used to move you from your guarding position.

It is not a foul to merely guard the ball with your arm. But if the defense makes an attempt to steal the ball and the offense uses the arm to impeed the defense, then it would be an "illegal use of hands" foul or a player control foul.

This is simply my opinion based upon my understanding of the rules.

Thanks!

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Mike S.
ILLINIOS