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Mon Dec 09, 2002, 03:07pm
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I need some advice on how to call the chaos in the lane during rebounds, which seems to be exceptionally bad during girls games I am calling. How do you pick which foul to call, especially when multiple exist? At what point does "over the back" (not a call, I know) become a block, push, hold, etc? This has been a difficult area for me, and, in the girls games especially, seems to be the beginning point for escalating hostilities between the teams. Thanks in advance for the help.
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Strange women, lying in ponds, distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. If I went around claiming I was an emperor just because some moistened bink lobbed a scimitar at me, they would put me away. -Monty Python- 
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Mon Dec 09, 2002, 03:15pm
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Look for displacement.
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A good place to start is to see if a player has been moved 12"-18" and that "the moved player" had a chance at getting the ball. If there is just too much activity, and you don't like it, just call a foul on a "known player". That'll send the message that you are looking. ...Then go down to the other end and call it again. Yes, it's tough, but set your own tolerances, and quit listening to, "Let 'em play!" mick
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Mon Dec 09, 2002, 03:18pm
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Its not the "Let em play" that I worry about. It is the sheer volume of activity and trying to get a handle on how to call it consistently on both ends. I like the 12"-18" rule of thumb, along with the chance of catching the ball. Sounds like a good combination with which to start.
__________________
Strange women, lying in ponds, distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. If I went around claiming I was an emperor just because some moistened bink lobbed a scimitar at me, they would put me away. -Monty Python-
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Mon Dec 09, 2002, 04:02pm
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Call what you see. If there is a lot of activity, but you see one player displace (therefore, fouling) another, call it.
You will not get them all, but if you are getting some, it will clean it self up. Don't worry about who you get, just get something.
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Mon Dec 09, 2002, 04:11pm
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I call it tighter....
I call the Push much tighter. If the player is moved more than 6" or so I call the foul, unless s/he got the ball anyway. Then I call it only if I need to send a message, i.e., start cleaning things up.
I don't believe the rule has a minimum so you can call the fould on 1/8" displacement if you need to. Just be sure to be consistent.
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Mon Dec 09, 2002, 04:15pm
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I probably shouldn't go here, but......
It seems that this is much harder to call in girls games than boys games. Last weekend, I felt I was applying the same "criteria" for advantage/disadvantage on these things and heard nothing but whining in the girls games and not a word in the boys games.  [Edited by ScottParks on Dec 9th, 2002 at 03:17 PM]
__________________
To tolerate mediocrity is to foster it.
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Mon Dec 09, 2002, 04:29pm
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Bird's nest
Yes this is perplexing situation. As you have likened this activity to a rugby scrum, I have made analogies to a bird's nest of baby birds crying to their mother for the worm with which she has just arrived. All the little birdies are completly oblivious to anything but the worm. What a mess!
Most girls do not understand how to establish their position or block out the other team. For you.... See a foul and call it.... all action stops. Repeat as necessary. It is usually easy to find someone on the outside edge of the scrum/nest that is climbing up someone's back to get to the ball/worm. Call a push and administer - pay attention to WHO THE SHOOTER WILL BE if you are in the bonus, The girls will surely not have a clue. If you miss this last point the egg will be on your face when you get ready to shoot free-throws.
__________________
"There are no superstar calls. We don't root for certain teams. We don't cheat. But sometimes we just miss calls." - Joe Crawford
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Mon Dec 09, 2002, 04:30pm
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Re: I call it tighter....
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Yeah, I am tighter than 12"-18", but we have to start somewhere for the reasonable sorting out of a mess. Some of us haven't been working too long yet, but as our experience grows, our parameters will become individualized. At first, when we start doing this game, we just can't get enough direction. Few camps or clinics get into the judgment issues, but, rather, they emphasize mechanics and presence. Remember how it all looked back when? Players everywhere, coaches yellin', tryin' to watch the game, tryin' to hear the coach, tryin' not to hear the coach, listenin' and not listenin' to fans, what was that player's number, where d'he go, did the basket go in, which way is white. Once we get all that stuff under control, then we may start to refine our calls to the imperfect science that it is. mick
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Mon Dec 09, 2002, 04:38pm
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1) Player whining, coach whining, or parent whining? 2) What level of girls/boys play were you reffing (age/skill/experience)? 3)What was the beef - not liking any calls, screaming for the infamous over the back, let em play, combination of these, etc?
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Mon Dec 09, 2002, 04:42pm
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I don't know about Scott, but here are my answers to the following questions:
1. Yes 2. Freshman/JV girls and boys-girls significantly worse than boys on questions 1&3. 3. Yes
__________________
Strange women, lying in ponds, distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. If I went around claiming I was an emperor just because some moistened bink lobbed a scimitar at me, they would put me away. -Monty Python-
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Mon Dec 09, 2002, 04:48pm
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Quote:
2) Varsity girls tourney 4A and private schools 3) Get em off her..... over the back.... she can't do that....... that's a travel ........ you're just guessing .... what about on my shot.....
__________________
To tolerate mediocrity is to foster it.
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Mon Dec 09, 2002, 04:50pm
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I had one of those games yesterday. Girls game, the first half was very physical and ragged. We called 29 fouls in the first half. The reason I know, is that the scorekeeper kept adding the fouls on the scoreboard. At the end of the half:
Red 17 fouls and White 12 fouls. 2nd half was much better. Plus the scoreboard fouls were not indicated once we got into the penalty, which was late.
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Tue Dec 10, 2002, 03:47pm
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Hey, Scott.
"you're just guessing..." I love it! I'll have to use that sometime. Got a reply for you - "Coach, I usually just pick a number out of a hat, but I forgot my referee's cap at home tonight."
__________________
If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning. - Catherine Aird
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Tue Dec 10, 2002, 04:23pm
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Quote:
Try to keep me out of the  Edited to show TH that its the source file not the writer  [Edited by ScottParks on Dec 10th, 2002 at 03:54 PM]
__________________
To tolerate mediocrity is to foster it.
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Tue Dec 10, 2002, 04:36pm
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I usually look for the "outside" player and call the foul on her. "outside" meaning the player who is the third or fourth player into the scrum, far away from the balll, who just basically climbs on somebody's back to try to get a hand in. Keep calling those, and the action eventually clears out to just 2 or 3, and you can really see the fouls then.
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