First, the part that interests you guys. The two varsity officials we had last night were two that I hadn't had a very good opinion of. One threatened me my first year "keep it up, Coach, it only takes one from me to get you run out of here" and the other is usually very indecisive.

They surprised me last night, however. One of our dads was being a loudmouth so the official stopped the game, had a chat with the game manager, and the game manager went up to talk to him. Took care of it. A few minutes later on an inbound setup (before handing the ball), our opponent pushed our player in the back, and our player gave one of those "get off me" moves sort of pushing and pulling her arm away at once. He saw both things, and instead of calling something, he went to them and talked to them and kept it under control.

Before the game, the other coach and I were talking about how it seems like games have been called tighter in our league as of late (perception? reality? I don't know) and how we both like it better when the officials let them play. Of course, we both have big strong post players! Well these guys let us play. Only 26 combined fouls for the game.

Now the part that interests me. We were down 12-0 early and 17-7 after one quarter. We got it together and led 34-30 for almost five full minutes in the fourth quarter. They cut it to 2 with 33 seconds left. We missed a 1 & 1, rebounded, missed another 1 & 1, rebounded, and traveled. They had it with 20 seconds left, got three decent looks, and missed them all. We are 3-1!

One more part that interests this forum. When they scored to cut it to 2, their coaches called for a timeout. I can see the scoreboard and hear the whistles on the tape, so I think I can accurately describe what happened. The ball went through around :36, the timeout whistle came at about :34.5, and the clock kept running. There was a second, louder whistle (I guess he saw that it hadn't stopped) and then the clock stopped at :32.2. The official came in our huddle to tell me that it was at :33.8 when he hit the whistle, so they were resetting it. When we broke the huddle, it was at :33.3? I asked him if it should be at :32.8, because if he saw it at :33.8, doesn't he have to allow one second of lag time? He said no and we went with :33.3.

Oh, and check this out. Even though this is the 41st year my school has had a team, they've been perenially bad and coaches haven't stuck around long. One of my players went through the yearbooks in the library and told me the CAREER coaching wins record at our school is 18. This is my third year, and this was win #15. This pales compared to the dean of our league who has something like 475, but it'd be pretty cool to be my school's winningest coach.

I gotta tell you guys this, because if I tell anybody else, it sounds like I'm bragging!

It still sounds like yer braggin'.
 

Attaboy, Coach! :)

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Now the part that interests me. We were down 12-0 early and 17-7 after one quarter. We got it together and led 34-30 for almost five full minutes in the fourth quarter. They cut it to 2 with 33 seconds left. We missed a 1 & 1, rebounded, missed another 1 & 1, rebounded, and traveled.

Hey, you guys sound like the Nicks! :)

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They had it with 20 seconds left, got three decent looks, and missed them all. We are 3-1!

Hey, they sound like the Nicks too! :eek:

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Oh, and check this out. Even though this is the 41st year my school has had a team, they've been perenially bad and coaches haven't stuck around long. One of my players went through the yearbooks in the library and told me the CAREER coaching wins record at our school is 18. This is my third year, and this was win #15. This pales compared to the dean of our league who has something like 475, but it'd be pretty cool to be my school's winningest coach. I gotta tell you guys this, because if I tell anybody else, it sounds like I'm bragging!

Congrats!

I'm glad that the two officials surprised you in the good way. Congrats on the game.

Just out of curiosity, does the above quote mean that the score didn't change for five full minutes, or that you held your 4 point lead for 5 minutes? Five minutes without any scoring would be excrutiating for fans and coaches alike.

You're gonna be the all-time wins leader at that school by New Year's Day, Coach. Congrats. Bring on the bragging!!

Chuck

Yep, five minutes without scoring. They were trying to pound it inside, and we were sagging in on D. None of their guards wanted to shoot. I was taking notes watching the tape last night. We hit a three with 5:45 left to make it 34-30. There next six possessions were: turnover, turnover, turnover, blocked shot our rebound, turnover, blocked shot our rebound. We were running our delay for 20-30 seconds each trip then getting into our offense, but not cashing in.

It wasn't excruciating, it was beautiful! Well, it was from where I was sitting!

Riley or Van Gundy would be proud of the defense we played last night, so I'll take that as a compliment! But I'll bet neither of them had to face the accusation I did last night. On the bus ride home, my team interrogated me about my pre-game flirting with the opposing coach! (Hey, she was cute!)

Congrats Coach...and glad they did a good job for you... look at it this way - if you can average 15 wins a season, it will only take you 32 more seasons to catch up with the dean of your league!! And tell your team that they need to interrogate you when you start flirting with the coaches who AREN'T cute - that's when they need to worry!!

The one second lag time is only used in determining whether to reset the clock or not. If the official had definite knowledge that the clock should have stopped at 0:33 and the clock is at :29, they reset it to :33. In the same instance, if the clock is actually at 0:32, no reset is allowed because you allow for the 1 second lag. That's how the lag is taken into account.

Mregor

WRONG! The official had definite knowledge that the whistle went at 33.8. That is definite knowledge that the clock should have stopped by 32.8. This is the definition of allowable lag time. Lag time allowance does not go away just because the timer did not stop within allowable lag time.

As for flirting, if your players are anything like my 8th grade girls, anything you did would pale in comparison to how they act when any goodlooking guy that is college age otr below walks within a mile of them!

[Edited by Hawks Coach on Dec 5th, 2002 at 11:43 AM]

I should also have pointed out that the ref in question used his personal arbitrary lag time standard to reset the clock. He had definite knowledge of 33.8 whistle blowing, should have reset to 32.8, and chose something in between (33.3). Makes you wonder what he thought he was doing. He could choose one of two answers provided here (lag or no lag), and chose neither?!

Wrong?
 

Check out the NFHS case book 5.10.1 Sit. B and Sit. D.

If the Referee had definite knowledge that the whistle was blown at 33.8 seconds and more than one second ticked off (ie. clock shows any time less than 32.8 seconds) then the clock is reset to 33.8. Anything else is not in accordance with the rule book.

Maybe you were trying to say this, but I was not sure and felt a need to clarify.

[Edited by Ref in PA on Dec 5th, 2002 at 12:12 PM]

From the coach's standpoint, I meant excrutiating in the sense of your hair getting grayer by the second, not in the sense that it was ugly to watch. No offense was intended, honest, Coach!

Chuck

My bad - failed to llok it up and counted on memory. Nevertheless, my second statement about personal lag time still stands - where did that come from?

Who's Nick, and why is there a team named after him?

Another Coach thinking they know it all. You might want to read the rule book. I don't have my rule book with me, but I'm 99.9% confident that I am not wrong.

Mregor

I think we have established that Mregor is correct on this one, thanks to Ref in PA for the case book citations. I know this served as a good review for me!
I'm posting this because I want to emphasize that comment at the end of 5.10.1A.
Remember that if you blow your whistle and are not looking at the clock, when you do look at it, it should not still be running. If it is, you should have it reset as the 1 second "lag" interval for the timer to react to your whistle and the time it took you to turn your head to look at the clock occur simultaneously.
This is different from 5.10.1 sit. D where the official is looking at the clock and blows his whistle. Here the timer still gets the one second to react, if he stops it quicker great, but if he is slower then put it back to what you saw as you blew your whistle.

My 2 cents is that I go out of my way to try not to embarrass the timer. When a coach comes to me about the clock, I always politely ask the person at the table if he feels that he might have stopped the clock a bit late and if we could put a couple of seconds back. This almost always works and keeps up good relations. Only when I am sure he made a mistake and it will clearly effect the outcome of the game would I insist on putting time back even if the timer objected. (Especially, if it is a home town job.) Here the kids must get a fair deal even if I have so step on some toes.

Ease up (or use a smiley).

Hawks Coach is one of the good guys -- and he would have been right last year.

The NFHS changed, w/o comment, one of the cases related to this situation.

Since we are coming to the defense of others... In Mregor's defense, I think coach brought some of that snide remark on himself (or is it hisself) by his use of the all caps WRONG!, which was similar to yelling it, so don't be to hard on Mregor either, he seems to be fairly new around... JMHO..

You are correct dev - I shot first!