The Official Forum

The Official Forum (https://forum.officiating.com/)
-   Basketball (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/)
-   -   Should Basketball Officials Have Background Checks, and BeTested For Drugs? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/6363-should-basketball-officials-have-background-checks-betested-drugs.html)

Love2ref4Ever Sun Nov 24, 2002 05:07pm

With so much going on in "The Wonderful World Of Basketball" today there may come a time when as officials we may have to be subjected to background checks,and drug testing. How do you feel about this?

Kelvin green Sun Nov 24, 2002 05:21pm

What would a background check or drug test accomplish?
I work in an organization (actually two) that has drug testing. Unless there is safety involved or it is the military who cares?

Unless the organization had some very specific rules and some good legal advice I think it would be a bad thing! Official's groups are open to the public to join. Restricting membership based on someone's criminal background or drug use would be getting risky. It is no different that having a background check to join the Kiwanis, Rotary, etc.

The only question may be is to have a pedophile working a jr high school game.... but I dont think all assignments could be restricted.

Love2ref4Ever Sun Nov 24, 2002 06:38pm

WE DON'T HAVE A UNION!
 
Since we don't have a union as officials on the high school and collegiate level, then how could we fight such a demand?

Kelvin green Sun Nov 24, 2002 07:04pm

The question is who would impose this upon us?
You are exactly right we are not employees. We are generally independent contractors. There are a couple of issues to be hurdled.
1) Unless there are competing officials associations, usually we are the only game in town and someone recognizes the group through some sort of contractual relationship.
The group refuses to work. ( acts like a union)

2) Who would pay for the tests? These tests are not cheap. If the official were required to pay, we would find ways to pass it on.

3) What would be the purpose? Most drug testing goes on in safety sensitive areas. officiating is not a safety sensitive position.

4) Most organizations dont test regular employees. Why would they impose it on us? We are not athletes competing... If we are impaired someone wil notice.

5) How many lawsuits would they face for unreasonableness?

I need to do more research, but random drug testing and pre-employment drug testing seem to have fairly narrow scopes under the law.

To join an officials organization is like I mentioned before no different than to join anyother community organization. It is open to the general public. There may be rules on who works what games but we could not exclude someone in an officials organization because of criminal background.

Marty Rogers Sun Nov 24, 2002 07:05pm

I would have no problem submitting to a drug test and/or a criminal background check (as I have nothing to hide). The state or school, or whoever wants this information, would just have to foot the bill. I suspect that the expense of such testing would be prohibitive in most situations. Do you know of any states requiring this for HS officials?

Tim C Sun Nov 24, 2002 07:37pm

Not exactly,
 
Several states have UNIONIZED officials. I can think of a half dozen without much effort.

In Washington D.C. and Northern Virgina the majority of baseball umpires are indeed unionized.

There are also several basketball unions at local levels.


ChuckElias Sun Nov 24, 2002 08:12pm

While an official's drug use might not be a safety issue, it is definitely an issue regarding the "integrity of the game". An official who has a large debt to his dealer might easily be willing to influence the outcome of a game in order to pay off that debt.

This is why gambling is frowned on by most major sports leagues, even if the person is not gambling on his/her own sport.

Just my 2 cents

Chuck

Dan_ref Sun Nov 24, 2002 10:49pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Kelvin green
The question is who would impose this upon us?


New York State has proposed legislation that would subject
scholastic sports officials (among others) to fingerprinting
and a background check to determine if the person has been
convicted of child sex abuse.

mick Sun Nov 24, 2002 11:00pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Dan_ref
Quote:

Originally posted by Kelvin green
The question is who would impose this upon us?


New York State has proposed legislation that would subject
scholastic sports officials (among others) to fingerprinting
and a background check to determine if the person has been
convicted of child sex abuse.

...And Little League will "require" DL# and SS# this year for the first time for all volunteers for background checks.
George Orwell lives.

zebraman Sun Nov 24, 2002 11:18pm

Here in the state of Washington, we are required to have a background check every two years. They look for child molestation offenses...Personally, I think it is a good thing and have no problem with it. Sure beats the alternative don't you think?

Z

JRutledge Mon Nov 25, 2002 07:30am

Illinois.
 
In my state we were required to give a Driver's License copy a few years ago to get a background check. They also ask if we have been convicted of any drug usage or possession charges, along with assult of children, sexually or physical abuse. And we are also to inform the state if we are up for any felony charges (not yet convicted). Failure to do so can result in lost of license all together.

Peace

Ref in PA Mon Nov 25, 2002 09:03am

And ...
 
Next we will need a psychological profile to determine if we have the proper disposition to be a referee. Unfortunately most of us will fail and be committed to the State Mental Hospital where all coaches sit on the board of Trustees. We would all be diagnosed with a masochistic disorder because we love to take abuse from players, coaches and fans.

Dan_ref Mon Nov 25, 2002 10:29am

Re: And ...
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Ref in PA
Next we will need a psychological profile to determine if we have the proper disposition to be a referee. Unfortunately most of us will fail and be committed to the State Mental Hospital where all coaches sit on the board of Trustees. We would all be diagnosed with a masochistic disorder because we love to take abuse from players, coaches and fans.

Yeah, the test might be someone points at a brick wall and
tells us there's a 5th grade rec game on the other side.
They need a ref, but the only way into the gym is through
the wall. You fail the test if you run into the wall more
than twice. :D

dblref Mon Nov 25, 2002 10:37am

Re: Not exactly,
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Tim C
Several states have UNIONIZED officials. I can think of a half dozen without much effort.

In Washington D.C. and Northern Virgina the majority of baseball umpires are indeed unionized.

There are also several basketball unions at local levels.


I belong to the largest basketball officials association in Northern Virginia and we are not unionized. To the best of my knowledge, this point has never come up.

AK ref SE Mon Nov 25, 2002 06:40pm

The cost of drug testing is not cheap, I cannot see where it would be cost affective to put a program like this in place. I think it would be different if an official came to the game site under the influence (alcohol or drugs). The association may have penalties in place for such action. I know our association does.

AK ref SE

Marty Rogers Mon Nov 25, 2002 07:22pm

Re: And ...
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Ref in PA
Next we will need a psychological profile to determine if we have the proper disposition to be a referee. Unfortunately most of us will fail and be committed to the State Mental Hospital where all coaches sit on the board of Trustees. We would all be diagnosed with a masochistic disorder because we love to take abuse from players, coaches and fans.

And, don't forget about our oral fixations; always wanting a whistle in our mouths.

stan-MI Tue Nov 26, 2002 12:43pm

There was a story in Referee magazine within the last 2 years about the NCAA requiring background checks for tournament officials, and how some officials were resisting. Don't remember much else about the story.

williebfree Thu Nov 28, 2002 12:45am

WI is lax
 
WI is lax in this area. Initially, candidates for state certification are required to have a certified official and an Athletic Director sign off on the application card. That is our state's extent of a "Background Check." I have absolutely no reservations to submitting to a "Background Check" or drug testing. Unfortunately, I have encountered officials who have obvious "issues" with alcohol abuse. It would seem to me these unfit officials are rapidly removed from the circuit as their conduct does not merit future contract and the "word" would make its rounds (via the "grapevine").


Additional food for thought...
Our games are played on school grounds. By state law, no alcohol or tobacco products are allowed on grounds.

Love2ref4Ever Thu Nov 28, 2002 08:45am

Should Basketball Officials Have Background Checks, and Be Tested For Drugs?
 
I was told by one of my High School assigners that if you work any one specific high school (in the PSAL) for five games during the season, you are to suppose to have a background check. Then he said, don't worry about it because no one will get five games at any paticular school. I believe he said, that the league is concerned with officials who may have been arrested or convicted of crimes against children. Now as far as the drugs and alcohol are concerned. I was told by an official who is moving up the ladder that, if you don't drink(alcoholic beverages) with some of the other officials, you may be considered an out cast! It seems to me that alcohol is part of the social thing in officiating. I have found myself running up a soda tab at a bar during a officiating camp, just to be social. I don't knock what any one does off the court, but if it affects your performance on the court, then you may want to take a look and see if you have a problem. Maybe if there were background checks, and drug test some officials would be dead ducks!

zebraman Fri Nov 29, 2002 12:57am

<i>I was told by an official who is moving up the ladder that, if you don't drink(alcoholic beverages) with some of the other officials, you may be considered an out cast!</i>

That is so lame. The "good old boys" club huh? One of my first varsity games was with a highly-ranked "good old boy" and we had a great game. Afterwards, he stopped at a convencience store and bought "us" a half rack of beer. He handed one to me and popped one for himself. I said, "I don't drink thanks. I have no problem with anyone who does unless they are operating a car that I'm riding in." He sheepishly stowed it until he dropped me off.

Now I'm rated in the top 5 around here and I don't think he refs anymore. I'm sure he told a few of his "good old buddies" that Z is a square, but if you can ref a good enough game and get the respect of everyone for the right reasons, you don't need to play those games, IMHO.

Z

rainmaker Fri Nov 29, 2002 10:33am

In Oregon, OSAA requires background checks. They get them "in bulk" fairly cheap I think, but we each pay for our own, out of our association membership.

I don't have a problem with it, it's just part of the current landscape in our society. It will be a sad day, when we are all required to take drug tests.

rpirtle Fri Nov 29, 2002 11:21am

I have to submit to a criminal background check every year because I volunteer in my son's elementary school. I don't like it (invasion of privacy, and all that stuff)...but I'm glad they do it (for my son's protection).

Dan_ref Sat Nov 30, 2002 11:12am

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker
In Oregon, OSAA requires background checks. They get them "in bulk" fairly cheap I think, but we each pay for our own, out of our association membership.

I don't have a problem with it, it's just part of the current landscape in our society. It will be a sad day, when we are all required to take drug tests.

How much do they run? Word around here is that a background
check to comply with the proposed NY law will run $75 to $100, including the fingerprints.

rainmaker Sat Nov 30, 2002 08:57pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Dan_ref
Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker
In Oregon, OSAA requires background checks. They get them "in bulk" fairly cheap I think, but we each pay for our own, out of our association membership.

I don't have a problem with it, it's just part of the current landscape in our society. It will be a sad day, when we are all required to take drug tests.

How much do they run? Word around here is that a background
check to comply with the proposed NY law will run $75 to $100, including the fingerprints.

If I remember correctly, it's only $14, and you only have to do it for one sport per year. So I had one run for volleyball, and I paid $14 less for my basketball "dues" because I didn't need another check.

At the non-profit where I volunteer, all emloyees and volunteers are required to have all the different backbround checks, local, state and federal. This process includes fingerprinting. The agency pays for employees, volunteers pay for themselves, and then are reimbursed after they have "worked" for six months. It costs pretty close to $100 for the whole works. A few volunteers have balked, but not many.

Tweets Sun Dec 01, 2002 02:25am

I Vote Yes
 
I see no hassle with background checks. On our end all we do is write our DL & SOC on our nice little registration form and someone else does the rest. So, no big deal unless you've got something to hide. It may throw a hint of our reputation out to our assignors. I know of a couple of guys in my association that I do not feel comfortable seeing them work in the high schools, but there must be no assuming.

A Pennsylvania Coach Sun Dec 01, 2002 10:04am

As a coach, when hired I have to pay $10 for a Criminal Record check and another $10 for a Child Abuse Clearance. It's money well spent to give the parents peace of mind about who has their kids for 2-3 hours a day for 4 months! I'd think this would be an acceptable level of clearance for officials, and I think if an association told it's member schools that officiating fees were going up $0.50 per game this year to pay for this, not a single school would balk.

mick Sun Dec 01, 2002 11:22am

This makes me tired.
 

I tire of legislators telling me what to do, when to do it, how to do it, why to do it and what color it should be.
I understand that the world is run by a bunch of C+ individuals with good intentions, but I don't have to like it.

Making officials and coaches do these things is fine, ...I guess, but let's have all the parents and administrators do it also. Let's have them do it first! Child abuse starts at home, fellas. Let them set the example.

mick


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:43pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1