Thoughts from a coach
 

The following was posted on our state basketball's message board, thread entitled "Stop Officiating the Scoreboard!" I'll just post the OP (there are some interesting replies) for now...
-----------------------------

Why do some official [sic] believe that they have a right to try and even the playing surface by adjusting the play calling for the inferior opponent?

In four different games this season I was informed by 4 different officials that they were not going to make on obvious foul or travel call because, “Look at the score board!”

Do the rules of the game change just because of the number of points up on the score board?

Is this reason to allow for excessive contact by an inferior defender?

At what point does an official decide they have the right to change the rules of a game?

What this really comes down to is, why do some officials believe that they are bigger than the game?

IMO, a legitimate concern if that what he is being told.

Anytime we do not do what they want us to do on the court, we think we are bigger than the game. This is just one more reason I couldn't care less what fans or coaches think of officiating.

Peace

The supposed responses may have been made because he was complaining about judgement calls when he was up by 30 points. How do we know the fouls/violations were "obvious"?

"Look at the scoreboard" to me = "is this a battle you really want to fight right now?"

If coaches are going to complain about us as officials "officiating the scoreboard" (a term that I've never heard before but makes a lot of sense), then we have just as much right to complain about coaches who complain about a lop sided foul count.

I think we should come up with a term for this as well, but "B****ing about the scoreboard" just doesn't have the same ring. Suggestions?

Anyways, the point is that this is a two way street. I'm willing to call a game by the book in a blowout the day that coaches promise to never complain about the foul counts getting out of whack. I don't see that happening any time soon.

Thats why we shouldnt discuss things of that nature with them!

Tossing the slaughtered team a bone by giving them 50/50 calls is far from ignoring obvious fouls/violations :rolleyes:

Hell, they think every travel is obvious... even when the player doesnt have possession of the ball :rolleyes:

They think their player has been fouled in the act of shooting... even when the defender is straight up & the contact (caused by the offense) was very loud :rolleyes:


Will you post some of the good replies, bainsey??


+1

I had a partner say to a coach the other day, "You get paid a lot of money to count those" while he walked away from him.

There is nothing special to say, I just tell them that this is not a road they want to go down or that you couldn't care less about that. I have over the years tried to find a special phrase and usually what I get back to is the truth. They get paid money to count those, I call them. Not my concern what the count is and I have told them that. It is up to them to deal with it. You will never satisfy these fools anyway.

Peace

Depending on who I'm dealing with night to night, I'll go with:

I dont count em, I just call em! OR
Stop fouling!

Here's the entire thread. That way, you can see other posts as they're added, and you can decide for yourself what's good.

"Coach, my job isn't to even the count." Either that, or I'll simply shrug my shoulders and agree with the coach that the foul count is so and so.

Umm... sarcasm? Attempt at humor? I don't care what the foul count is either because 99% of the time it is legit. I just hate when it becomes a point of contention, much the same as the frustration related by the coach in the OP.

Thanks, good thing he didnt post that over here!

+1

+1

Same sh!t, different day. Nothing ever changes.

One day a coach is going to say, "It's not about you," and I'm going to wave him bye-bye and say "it's certainly not about you, either."

Naw, you'd unload him....and you'd think about saying that....but you'd never actually say it. You're too smart and too much of a professional to go down that road, Rich.

I fantasize about doing it my last season, but you're right. It's just not worth it -- that coach just wouldn't be worth it.

Bigger Picture
 

10-15 years ago officials were essentially taught to make attempts to avoid lopsided foul counts. This was done under the guise of "game management". There are still older D-1 officials who decide when the "game needs a call" or a "team needs a call", and do so. In the case of blowouts, some guys just want the game over with and others don't want to deal with calling fouls that won't affect the game. Complacency affects a lot of officials, despite the fact that few admit it. Problem is, most of the folks on this message board work very hard, so they do not get complacent very often. But it happens a lot more than you think. Watch some films.

Today, we go by the film. If it is a foul, call it. Younger officials at the higher levels will get penalized for not doing so. It's the evolution of officiating from art to science. Until most officials buy into that and execute it, the perception will be there and have some validity. Some guys refuse to flex in 3-man at the high school level. That always cracks me up.

The perceptions of coaches and fans are valid. They may not always be right, or may rarely be right, but writing their opinions off, when some officials do exactly what the coaches and fans complain about, doesn't help officials as a collective group.

1)That is a complete pile of steaming doodoo. That was NEVER taught at any level at any time, unless it was by out-of-touch people like ...well..yourself.

2) Oh my! We should listen to and worry about what fans think. Got it, I'll get right on that. Oh my! Un-freaking-bellievable. :rolleyes: What next? Avoid lopsided foul counts to keep the l'il buggers happy too?


Methinks your oracling is in need of a whole bunch of work.

Lah me......

Maybe he is just....Old School.

Sorry JR but he is not only right, there are still some old-timers that believe this. There is a well known official in my area that preaches this all the time. That being said hardly anyone respects him anymore. I worked with this official years ago and he tried to convince me not to call a player with his 5th foul and give it to another player that was not even close or in on the play in question. But this is not taught that way by most anymore, just know where he is coming from.

I could give a damn about any fans. I do not work for fans and I really do not work for any coaches. Coaches come and go more than officials do. Most coaches in a 5 year period of time will not be around anymore.

Peace

No, nice word parsing. Coaches and fans know when calls do not fit the game at all. I want most of my whistles to be for obvious reasons. The crew on the Kentucky game will get savaged for that call/T at the end of the first half, and rightly so. The MSU coach will insist on it, and get it.

I watch older clinicians talk about foul count perceptions every summer. The 45 and under crowd pretty much leans towards robotic science, but many of the older officials still consider coach perceptions, foul counts, and "game management". I was never a big fan of that, despite being well over 45. Sometimes, it hurt me, too, because I had to adjust my personal philosophies to align better on some crews.

Keep on living in that black and white world.

That philosophy was never taught except for maybe by a few oddballs like the one you mentioned above. It sureasheck never was a universal philosophy. And it sureasheck wasn't and isn't accepted then or now either.

That's absolutely terrible advice by the oracle.

And as for us listening to fans? That speaks for itself imo.

All I want to say is I watched a game this year where the officals did NOT do any of the above and the final score was 79-10. The winning team put on a FULL court press from the opening tip to the final buzzer.

I would say that is a reason why SOME officials might do what you have posted above. I'm just sayin.

I don't have to parse these words. They speak for themselves. I'm completely different than you. I want as many of my calls as possible to be right and I don't give a damn what coaches and especially fans think of my calls. Imo you should grow some cojones and just call the damn game and say t'hell with the coaches and fans and quit worrying about what they think.

Keep on living in a fantasy world.

What does the way any team decides to play defense have to do with the way we should officiate a game?

The coaches' coach. The players' play. And we react to what they do.

i think too many officials simply dismiss the opinions of coaches and fans without ever thinking about whether the comments have any merit....sometimes they are correct.

officials do "officiate the scoreboard" (it's human nature). coaches and fans want every call to go their way (it's human nature). officials get calls wrong (we're not perfect). coaches and fans let their emotions led to crazy assumptions (i.e. "star treatment", team favoritism, etc).

it would serve ALL officials well to take a second and determine if there is any validity to the criticism they receive...

the person who ALWAYS thinks they're right is often wrong and will rarely improve their officiating.

Dead on. To parse words and state that I advocate calling a game to placate fans and coaches is beyond stupid, and a desperate attempt to avoid the fact that we are part of the game, nothing more. I have never, ever heard criticisms of my top-rated officials that they are bigger than the game, and I get feedback from everyone, including fans who have played college basketball and others who don't have a clue. Feedback can be accepted or discarded, but when you disagree with 95% of the feedback, you most likely have an issue--it all areas of life, not just officiating.

Y'all keep getting feedback from the fans. Be sure to incorporate all of that great feedback from the fans into your training also. And good luck to you. And good luck to any official that you train also. They'll need it.

'Nuff said.

Maybe I'll poll the fans for my next block/charge call to make sure I get it right. It'll take a little bit longer, sure, but hey, "get the call right" should be my goal, right?

How about just blowing whiste and asking nearer coach, "whatcha got?" :D

did you know:
- that each official selected to work the NBA playoffs graded out at approx 95% during the regular season? (which means that 15% of the crews' calls are incorrect each game)
- the officials who worked the NCAA Championship game (Duke vs Butler) were 78% accurate during that game?

clearly the BEST officials in America are wrong a surprisingly high percentage of the time...since we're NOT in the NBA or Final Four, we are incorrect a larger percentage of the time....

an official who wants to get better will listen to comments/feedback/criticism, decide if it applies or is valid, and apply it/disregard it....

what is so terrible about that?

95 + 15 = 100 :confused:

Somebody's got FUZZY MATH

I know what you're getting at, but fans arent the most reliable source for us improving as officials.
After most of my games, the winning teams fans smiles at you & the losing teams fans roll their eyes at you.

The only time I take what they say to heart is when the losing teams fans/coaches/players say, "good job tonight."

if each official is correct 95% of the time, that's means he's missed 5% of the calls....right?
5% incorrect X 3 officials = 15%.....

is this the same level-headed, clear-thinking judgement that you demonstrate on the floor?

i can now see why you quickly dismiss feedback/comments from others....BECAUSE IT MUST HAPPEN ALL THE TIME!!!

3 NBA playoff officials rated at 95% accuracy = 15% ICCs

you simply don't get it, do you?

best of luck....

EXACTLY! you listen to the comments/feedback/criticism....decide if it's valid...and then apply it or disregard it.....

imho, it is not smart to simply dismiss immediately because of where it came from. it's the ONLY WAY to get better....

keep in mind, if you only do what you've always done, then you'll always get what you've always got.

There's absolutely nothing the matter with that UNLESS the comments/feedback/criticism comes from freaking fans. That's just plain ridiculous.

If you really think the average fan is knowledgeable and competent enough to offer constructive criticism to officials, well, good luck to you too. I sincerely hope that you and the oracle follow their great feedback. You both deserve it.

Maybe you both can have a poll when you blow your whistle.

I'm not going to get into a long drawn out discussion on this, but let's just say I'm far more concerned with the opinion of the actual officials in the stands than with the fans.

Everyone knows that no official has ever asked for/offered up help on an out of bounds call because one team's mass of fans who've been silent all night go ballistic.:rolleyes:

But don't ever listen to 'em:)

+1

To give a blanket statement that coaches have nothing to offer goes way too far.

Anytime you get feedback, you have to consider the source. Mind you, consider does not mean disregard. It means to consider their accuracy and motivation.

Certainly, we hear a lot of crud based on ignorance and/or selfish motivation from coaches. That doesn't mean that all of it is worthless. You just have to use your best judgment and consider what they're saying.

That goes for fellow officials, too. I received some good feedback from my partners their year, and I heed their words. I also received some crap from other officials too (like the guy who followed me into the locker room to firmly state I don't call a foul with :01 left in a 20-point game), and I can dismiss those words.

Either way, it's considering.

Wow.

If each official is 95% right, then that's 95+ 95+95 = 285 right out of 100+100+100 = 300 possible. 285/300 = 95%

And, since someone else on the crew might get the ones they miss, then the crew average is likley higher.

By your math, we could have 20 officials and miss 100% of the calls.

You're really not helping yourself here.

You're just flat wrong. If each official grades out at 95%, then their combined total will still be 95%. Not 85%.

Let's assume each official makes 40 calls per game that get graded. 95% means he gets 38 of those calls correct.

That means there were 6 incorrect calls per game. That would be 15% of 40, but there were 120 calls made total, not 40. Only 5% were missed.

Had a game Saturday where the fould count was 8 - 1. The coach had the usual comments about it and then said "All I want is an evenly called game and judging by the scoreboard you all are not doing that". I SOOOOOO wanted to say "Well, do you want the score evened out as well? If you gave the other team 7 points you could even that out as well." However, I just took two steps to my left!!
Later, when the foul count was 10 - 2 "That Fan" kept yelling, "You're only calling one side of the court.!!" OVER AND OVER. The radio PbP guys were at a break and I said "I WISH I was only calling one half of the court then I wouldn't have to do all this damn running". They cracked up and the *******s even used the line on the air......without giving ME any credit.!!!
Having said that, there are coaches, had two last nite, that if the have an issue with a call they may have a point and it should be addressed. IE. Had a player who kept driving endline, ending up behind the backboard and then jumping into the defender all for no call. After I explained what was happening they were fine with it and made the correction.

I see this more happen when the players really react to an out of bounds call that goes against them rather than the fans' reaction.

I would have stopped the game for a couple of free throws on this one.

Yup! At the highest level, they are taught not to be tied to their decisions. Be open to "why" it was perceived to be a foul/violation, dont try to prove "why" it wasn't a foul/violation. - Marc Davis

+1

If a coach can get away with crap like that, he'll just keep on a-doing it to you.

The problem is 99% of fans don't know jack about the rules, and even less about officiating. They think every bit of contact is a foul, unless it's on their team, then it's "ticky-tack" if there's no blood or concussion involved. They think the 3 second rule is always in effect (probably even during timeouts). They think a high dribble is illegal. They think it's a foul for a taller player to reach over top of a shorter one. And (this is just a guess) I'm willing to bet they think it's perfectly legal for a player to go out of bounds to get around defenders as long as he doesn't have the ball.

Further, they see everything through glasses tinted with their team colors. Why in the world would I take their complaints seriously?

Coaches get more credibility, but not much. they're less likely to miss all those rules, but their glasses have even darker tint than the fans.

Does that mean every coach and every fan that offers a critique is full of crap? No, but the likelihood of them having valid points is so small as to be negligible and therefore we're justified in dismissing them.

If you want to know how you're doing, get a qualified official to come observe your game. Don't take a poll.

I am not one who finds comments like that offensive, but I know that there are others who are more sensitive. We DID stop the game for a few FT's when he yelled, "That just shows how poor your judgement is." IMO, that is a little more personal. Ironically, he later apologized when we upgraded a foul on the other team to an Intentional. He said, "Unfortunately, it is too late to take back my earlier statement and the 'T'". Again, I SOOO wanted to say "We are just trying to keep things even. You know one bad judgement call, one good judgement call!!" But I just smiled and moved on. Yep, needed a new personal filter after the game!!

So, if the coach promises to not complain, you will call the game by the book. But if the coach complains, you will back off from the book and let the coach complain and complain and thus influence your ability to officiate by the book? Well, of course you will because you won't tell the coach to cut it out and then whack him to stop the complaining and allow you to work the game by the book. And why are you officiating? Sack up, tell the coach not to complain and if the coach complains, whack him. Otherwise continue on your journey of letting the coach dictate your ability to officiate by the book and keep that wonderful JV schedule you deserve.....

I don't see it as being sensitive; that's an even more direct charge on your integrity than a normal appeal to the foul count, IMO. I couldn't care less what he actually thinks of me, but he needs to know that comment isn't acceptable.

Amen.

The average coach if he's doing his job right is watching play to see what strategy he needs to employ. They only see us when we blow a whistle or don't blow one that they wanted us to blow. And it's the same for fans. They're watching the play, not the officials.

I's the same imo as me in the middle of a quadruple bypass telling the surgeon where he should place the stents.:)

Fixed it for ya.

Perhaps he should take a poll of the nurses?

Or, Mrs. JR?

That's fine, like I said, to me that is not a big attack on my integrity. His later statement certainly was. IMO, the first comment was vague and general while the second one was specific and personal. Would I have a problem if one of my partners T'd em for that? Not at all. We all have our hot buttons. (Personally, I LOATHE the Double Windshield Wiper Wave Off)
What I should have told him is "Why are you asking me? I am the one who called the only foul on the other team!!":D

is there a time limit on upgrading a personal foul to an intentional? i had a brutal game last saturday, boys jv where the foul was hard...double bonus situation. during the second thought i was wondering to myself if i should have called intentional. looking back, i know i should have.

There is no time frame (and no need for one), but you should make a call like that immediately or ASAP. It looks bad if you make the call then change it.

Peace

Yep, you probably have until the point where you're reporting the foul to do it. But even then, you're going to take some extra heat if you didn't give the Int. signal as a prelim.

I would say realistically up until the time you report the foul, you can decide to upgrade the foul. In most cases though, we want to get that intentional almost immediately.

Actually you do not really understand what I am agreeing with. I said that there are people that teach this. I did not say that it was universally accepted or that those taught to even up calls. I simply said that there are people that have taught officials to pay attention to the foul count and not allow it to get out of whack. That does not mean that is as much the case anymore, but it has happen. To say never is not true as I have heard this over the years by clinicians or trainers at camps. Officiating is never something everyone always agrees with about every philosophy. And before you get all upset, I did not say I agreed that this is correct either. Just stated I have heard this before.

Peace

We had a transition play with a double whistle. IMO, it looked bad from my angle but didn't know if the severity had 'risen to the level of intentional' so my partner and I huddled and agreed that it did so we "Upgraded". What you NEVER want to do is "Downgrade". Took less then a minute. HOpe that helps

Calling it now is probably too late. :D

Excellent advice!

Of course, the guy that provided info is gonna be crucified for "changing the other guys call" but thats why we get the big bucks.

Not necessarily. Just tell the coach we discussed it to make sure we had the same thing, then move on. This is not something you should spend a lot of time worrying about in my opinion. If your judgment is good there is not going to be much delay on this call anyway.

Peace

True! More often than not, I hear the "you cant change his call" routine on upgrades though.

"Coach, your reputation preceeds you & I know you dont teach or condone that type of defense" generally counters it though.
Ahh the game within the game.

+1
Also, in some games, there will naturally be a foul disparity. For example, in a game where one team's offense focuses on perimeter passing and open jump shots, going against a team whose strategy is to dribble-drive to the basket. Everything else being equal, which team do you think is going to commit more fouls?

That is why it is much more common to make sure if the foul disparity is unbalanced, know why that is the case. But that does not mean you can do much about it. Team that shoots from the outside is hardly ever going to get fouled. And I have told a coach that very thing.

Peace

Are you frickin' serious? :eek:

Official A: 95 calls right 5 wrong
Official B: 95 calls right 5 wrong
Official C: 95 calls right 5 wrong

That's 285 correct and 15 wrong. That still equals 95% correct and 5% wrong.

Well, that means 1% do. So after you do 100 games that means number of fans who know the rules will now be at 100%

Maybe, but 15% will still be wrong.

Yes, but which 15%?:confused:

Now we are caught in the statistical conundrum. Again.