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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 15, 2011, 06:01pm
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Originally Posted by RichMSN View Post
One day a coach is going to say, "It's not about you," and I'm going to wave him bye-bye and say "it's certainly not about you, either."
Naw, you'd unload him....and you'd think about saying that....but you'd never actually say it. You're too smart and too much of a professional to go down that road, Rich.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 15, 2011, 06:06pm
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Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee View Post
Naw, you'd unload him....and you'd think about saying that....but you'd never actually say it. You're too smart and too much of a professional to go down that road, Rich.
I fantasize about doing it my last season, but you're right. It's just not worth it -- that coach just wouldn't be worth it.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 15, 2011, 08:32pm
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Originally Posted by bainsey View Post
The following was posted on our state basketball's message board, thread entitled "Stop Officiating the Scoreboard!" I'll just post the OP (there are some interesting replies) for now...
-----------------------------

Why do some official [sic] believe that they have a right to try and even the playing surface by adjusting the play calling for the inferior opponent?

In four different games this season I was informed by 4 different officials that they were not going to make on obvious foul or travel call because, “Look at the score board!”

Do the rules of the game change just because of the number of points up on the score board?

Is this reason to allow for excessive contact by an inferior defender?

At what point does an official decide they have the right to change the rules of a game?

What this really comes down to is, why do some officials believe that they are bigger than the game?
10-15 years ago officials were essentially taught to make attempts to avoid lopsided foul counts. This was done under the guise of "game management". There are still older D-1 officials who decide when the "game needs a call" or a "team needs a call", and do so. In the case of blowouts, some guys just want the game over with and others don't want to deal with calling fouls that won't affect the game. Complacency affects a lot of officials, despite the fact that few admit it. Problem is, most of the folks on this message board work very hard, so they do not get complacent very often. But it happens a lot more than you think. Watch some films.

Today, we go by the film. If it is a foul, call it. Younger officials at the higher levels will get penalized for not doing so. It's the evolution of officiating from art to science. Until most officials buy into that and execute it, the perception will be there and have some validity. Some guys refuse to flex in 3-man at the high school level. That always cracks me up.

The perceptions of coaches and fans are valid. They may not always be right, or may rarely be right, but writing their opinions off, when some officials do exactly what the coaches and fans complain about, doesn't help officials as a collective group.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 15, 2011, 09:11pm
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Originally Posted by TheOracle View Post
1)10-15 years ago officials were essentially taught to make attempts to avoid lopsided foul counts.

2) The perceptions of coaches and fans are valid. They may not always be right, or may rarely be right, but writing their opinions off, when some officials do exactly what the coaches and fans complain about, doesn't help officials as a collective group.
1)That is a complete pile of steaming doodoo. That was NEVER taught at any level at any time, unless it was by out-of-touch people like ...well..yourself.

2) Oh my! We should listen to and worry about what fans think. Got it, I'll get right on that. Oh my! Un-freaking-bellievable. What next? Avoid lopsided foul counts to keep the l'il buggers happy too?


Methinks your oracling is in need of a whole bunch of work.

Lah me......
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 15, 2011, 10:09pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee View Post
1)That is a complete pile of steaming doodoo. That was NEVER taught at any level at any time, unless it was by out-of-touch people like ...well..yourself.

2) Oh my! We should listen to and worry about what fans think. Got it, I'll get right on that. Oh my! Un-freaking-bellievable. What next? Avoid lopsided foul counts to keep the l'il buggers happy too?


Methinks your oracling is in need of a whole bunch of work.

Lah me......
Maybe he is just....Old School.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 15, 2011, 11:13pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOracle View Post
10-15 years ago officials were essentially taught to make attempts to avoid lopsided foul counts. This was done under the guise of "game management". There are still older D-1 officials who decide when the "game needs a call" or a "team needs a call", and do so. In the case of blowouts, some guys just want the game over with and others don't want to deal with calling fouls that won't affect the game. Complacency affects a lot of officials, despite the fact that few admit it. Problem is, most of the folks on this message board work very hard, so they do not get complacent very often. But it happens a lot more than you think. Watch some films.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee View Post
1)That is a complete pile of steaming doodoo. That was NEVER taught at any level at any time, unless it was by out-of-touch people like ...well..yourself.
Sorry JR but he is not only right, there are still some old-timers that believe this. There is a well known official in my area that preaches this all the time. That being said hardly anyone respects him anymore. I worked with this official years ago and he tried to convince me not to call a player with his 5th foul and give it to another player that was not even close or in on the play in question. But this is not taught that way by most anymore, just know where he is coming from.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOracle View Post
The perceptions of coaches and fans are valid. They may not always be right, or may rarely be right, but writing their opinions off, when some officials do exactly what the coaches and fans complain about, doesn't help officials as a collective group.
I could give a damn about any fans. I do not work for fans and I really do not work for any coaches. Coaches come and go more than officials do. Most coaches in a 5 year period of time will not be around anymore.

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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 15, 2011, 11:45pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee View Post
1)

2) Oh my! We should listen to and worry about what fans think. Got it, I'll get right on that. Oh my! Un-freaking-bellievable. What next? Avoid lopsided foul counts to keep the l'il buggers happy too?


Methinks your oracling is in need of a whole bunch of work.

Lah me......
No, nice word parsing. Coaches and fans know when calls do not fit the game at all. I want most of my whistles to be for obvious reasons. The crew on the Kentucky game will get savaged for that call/T at the end of the first half, and rightly so. The MSU coach will insist on it, and get it.

I watch older clinicians talk about foul count perceptions every summer. The 45 and under crowd pretty much leans towards robotic science, but many of the older officials still consider coach perceptions, foul counts, and "game management". I was never a big fan of that, despite being well over 45. Sometimes, it hurt me, too, because I had to adjust my personal philosophies to align better on some crews.

Keep on living in that black and white world.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 16, 2011, 07:52am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
Sorry JR but he is not only right, there are still some old-timers that believe this. There is a well known official in my area that preaches this all the time. That being said hardly anyone respects him anymore. I worked with this official years ago and he tried to convince me not to call a player with his 5th foul and give it to another player that was not even close or in on the play in question. But this is not taught that way by most anymore, just know where he is coming from.
That philosophy was never taught except for maybe by a few oddballs like the one you mentioned above. It sureasheck never was a universal philosophy. And it sureasheck wasn't and isn't accepted then or now either.

That's absolutely terrible advice by the oracle.

And as for us listening to fans? That speaks for itself imo.

Last edited by Jurassic Referee; Wed Feb 16, 2011 at 11:07am.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 16, 2011, 07:58am
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Originally Posted by bainsey View Post
The following was posted on our state basketball's message board, thread entitled "Stop Officiating the Scoreboard!" I'll just post the OP (there are some interesting replies) for now...
-----------------------------

Why do some official [sic] believe that they have a right to try and even the playing surface by adjusting the play calling for the inferior opponent?

In four different games this season I was informed by 4 different officials that they were not going to make on obvious foul or travel call because, “Look at the score board!”

Do the rules of the game change just because of the number of points up on the score board?

Is this reason to allow for excessive contact by an inferior defender?

At what point does an official decide they have the right to change the rules of a game?

What this really comes down to is, why do some officials believe that they are bigger than the game?
All I want to say is I watched a game this year where the officals did NOT do any of the above and the final score was 79-10. The winning team put on a FULL court press from the opening tip to the final buzzer.

I would say that is a reason why SOME officials might do what you have posted above. I'm just sayin.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 16, 2011, 07:59am
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Originally Posted by TheOracle View Post
No, nice word parsing. Coaches and FANS know when calls do not fit the game at all. I want most of my whistles to be for obvious reasons.

IKeep on living in that black and white world.
I don't have to parse these words. They speak for themselves. I'm completely different than you. I want as many of my calls as possible to be right and I don't give a damn what coaches and especially fans think of my calls. Imo you should grow some cojones and just call the damn game and say t'hell with the coaches and fans and quit worrying about what they think.

Keep on living in a fantasy world.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 16, 2011, 08:05am
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Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan View Post
All I want to say is I watched a game this year where the officals did NOT do any of the above and the final score was 79-10. The winning team put on a FULL court press from the opening tip to the final buzzer.

I would say that is a reason why SOME officials might do what you have posted above. I'm just sayin.
What does the way any team decides to play defense have to do with the way we should officiate a game?

The coaches' coach. The players' play. And we react to what they do.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 16, 2011, 10:44am
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i think too many officials simply dismiss the opinions of coaches and fans without ever thinking about whether the comments have any merit....sometimes they are correct.

officials do "officiate the scoreboard" (it's human nature). coaches and fans want every call to go their way (it's human nature). officials get calls wrong (we're not perfect). coaches and fans let their emotions led to crazy assumptions (i.e. "star treatment", team favoritism, etc).

it would serve ALL officials well to take a second and determine if there is any validity to the criticism they receive...

the person who ALWAYS thinks they're right is often wrong and will rarely improve their officiating.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 16, 2011, 10:56am
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Originally Posted by jeffpea View Post
i think too many officials simply dismiss the opinions of coaches and fans without ever thinking about whether the comments have any merit....sometimes they are correct.

officials do "officiate the scoreboard" (it's human nature). coaches and fans want every call to go their way (it's human nature). officials get calls wrong (we're not perfect). coaches and fans let their emotions led to crazy assumptions (i.e. "star treatment", team favoritism, etc).

it would serve ALL officials well to take a second and determine if there is any validity to the criticism they receive...

the person who ALWAYS thinks they're right is often wrong and will rarely improve their officiating.
Dead on. To parse words and state that I advocate calling a game to placate fans and coaches is beyond stupid, and a desperate attempt to avoid the fact that we are part of the game, nothing more. I have never, ever heard criticisms of my top-rated officials that they are bigger than the game, and I get feedback from everyone, including fans who have played college basketball and others who don't have a clue. Feedback can be accepted or discarded, but when you disagree with 95% of the feedback, you most likely have an issue--it all areas of life, not just officiating.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 16, 2011, 11:13am
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Originally Posted by TheOracle View Post
Dead on. To parse words and state that I advocate calling a game to placate fans and coaches is beyond stupid, and a desperate attempt to avoid the fact that we are part of the game, nothing more. I have never, ever heard criticisms of my top-rated officials that they are bigger than the game, and I get feedback from everyone, including fans who have played college basketball and others who don't have a clue. Feedback can be accepted or discarded, but when you disagree with 95% of the feedback, you most likely have an issue--it all areas of life, not just officiating.
Y'all keep getting feedback from the fans. Be sure to incorporate all of that great feedback from the fans into your training also. And good luck to you. And good luck to any official that you train also. They'll need it.

'Nuff said.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 16, 2011, 11:21am
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Maybe I'll poll the fans for my next block/charge call to make sure I get it right. It'll take a little bit longer, sure, but hey, "get the call right" should be my goal, right?
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