Backcourt count....to begin or not to begin
 

A1 has player control in the frontcourt, passes ball to A2. B1 deflects ball into backcourt. When do you start the backcourt count, when the ball touches the backcourt or when A1 secures control of ball? There is no specific rule reference I have found nor a case play.

When do you think the count starts?

Play: A1 has a BC throw-in. Pass to A2 is tipped by A2 and goes to A3, who then catches the ball. When do you start your count? On A2's tip or A3's catch? And why?

What is the backcourt count counting? The player holding/dribbling the ball or the ball being in the backcourt?

What exactly is the 10 second violation for? That will answer your question.

FWIW, here's the rule.


SECTION 8 [from the 08-09 book] TEN SECONDS
A player shall not be, nor may his/her team be, in continuous control of a ball
which is in his/her backcourt for 10 seconds.

PENALTY: The ball is dead when the violation occurs and is awarded to the
opponents for a throw-in from the designated out-of-bounds spot nearest the
violation.

There's an official interp that disagrees with the general consensus
 

SITUATION 8: A1 is dribbling in his/her frontcourt when B1 deflects the ball into A's backcourt. The ball is bouncing toward the end line in A's backcourt while A1 and B1 give chase. B1 and A1 each contact the ball, but neither gains control. Finally, after numerous attempts by each player, A1 gains possession deep in A's backcourt. When does the 10-second count begin anew for Team A? RULING: The count starts as soon as the ball goes into the backcourt since team control has not ended. (4-12-3; 9-8)

Wrong rule, Jugs. The relevant rule for the OP is 9-9-1. The 10 second count starts as soon as the ball touches the back court because there was team control in the frontcourt and that team control was never lost. And yes, iirc there is a case play somewhere. I'll look it up.

You must have misunderstood the general consensus. Easy to do since no one had really given an answer.

That interp follows from my post.

Rats!
 

I was hoping for another debate! You were suppose to disagree with the official interp. Can't you follow my unwritten request! :):D:p

I disagree. I bolded "which" because a person isn't referenced by "which". A person is referenced by "who" or "whom". A ball, however, can be referenced by "which".

Since the rule says "team control" (which A still has because B's tip doesn't end A's team control) and the which refers to the ball, which is now in the BC after it hits the floor, the statement in my paragraph is met, and therefore can be applied.


Edit: I added to my OP that the section 8 is from the 08-09 book, as that is all that I have in electronic format.

You could always start a discussion about the other backcourt interp. Better yet, do a search, most of us (not all) disagree with that interp. That's the only one I know of, though.

Dead Horse
 

That horse is glue by now!

LOL, yep. Hence my "better yet" statement.

When do you think the count starts?

Play: A1 has a BC throw-in. Pass to A2 is tipped by A2 and goes to A3, who then catches the ball. When do you start your count? On A2's tip or A3's catch? And why?

To answer both quotes, the definition of 10 count is when player or team is in control of ball in the backcourt. Just because the ball was batted by team B, does Team A lose team control of ball?

Jugref, my sit is not about a throw-in.

The 10 count is for player or team control in backcourt. So, team control still exists with a batted ball, 10 count starts with ball touching backcourt. Thanks.

For the record...as rwest pointed out...

http://forum.officiating.com/basketb...s-archive.html

See SITUATION #8 in the 2008-09 Interps. It's the exact same play.

9-9-1 has nothing to do with the ten second count, or the OP.

I know your situation isn't about a throw-in. But the principals still apply. It's about knowing to separate TC and BC status as independent events.

The belief is that A had TC and once the ball hits the BC, start the count - not waiting until A has PC in the BC.

Holy Crap....:eek: I gotta read all that to find my sitch!!!! Alright...thanks guys.:o

That situation quotes 9-8, which is the section that I quoted. ;)

Speaking of which, I haven't seen a Nevadaref post for quite some time. Is he ok?

I see what you are saying, and that was part of the discussion to determining when to count. I initially ruled to wait to count for PC, I failed to recall the TC status of BC counting.