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-   -   Coach has a "bad back" (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/61504-coach-has-bad-back.html)

jTheUmp Mon Jan 31, 2011 11:10am

Coach has a "bad back"
 
Happened to me a few days ago:

9th grade boys game.

Home team coach is in "question every call" mode, and I eventually whacked him (maybe a bit prematurely, but I'm sure he would've gotten one eventually anyway).

My partner explains to him the seatbelt rule, and this coach then informs my partner that he can't sit down, because he has a bad back and sitting is difficult for him.

How would you handle this situation:
a) "Coach, the rules now require you to be seated, and they make no allowance for your back injury."
b) "Ok, coach, in that case you can remain standing, but you must stand at the end of your bench and not be walking back and forth in the coaching box"
c) " ". Move on with the game, whack him again, if/when he's up walking around.
d) "Coach, you should've considered that before you actions necessitated the techincal foul"

Ok, probably not D, except in my head.

A couple of additional pieces of information that you may wish to take into consideration:
1) This was in the first half of a 9A/9B doubleheader. This coach was the coach for both the 9A team and the 9B team.
2) There were no assistant coaches for this coach's team.
3) Home team was up by about 15 points when I whacked him, and they ended up winning by almost 40 points.

Da Official Mon Jan 31, 2011 11:13am

One Question:
 
You must be a TOP NOTCH official to have an assistant???

"My partner explains to him the seatbelt rule, and this coach then informs my assistant that he can't sit down, because he has a bad back and sitting is difficult for him."

jTheUmp Mon Jan 31, 2011 11:15am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Da Official (Post 724153)
You must be a TOP NOTCH official to have an assistant???

"My partner explains to him the seatbelt rule, and this coach then informs my assistant that he can't sit down, because he has a bad back and sitting is difficult for him."

D'OH. Correcting.

just another ref Mon Jan 31, 2011 11:17am

I'd probably tell him ok, coach, in that case, remain standing, but the next time you say one word about any call, you will be standing outside somewhere.

Loudwhistle Mon Jan 31, 2011 11:20am

Quote:

Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 724156)
i'd probably tell him ok, coach, in that case, remain standing, but the next time you say one word about any call, you will be standing outside somewhere.

+1

Da Official Mon Jan 31, 2011 11:24am

Quote:

Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 724156)
i'd probably tell him ok, coach, in that case, remain standing, but the next time you say one word about any call, you will be standing outside somewhere.

+1 :d

26 Year Gap Mon Jan 31, 2011 11:37am

I had that line from an asst coach in AAU. I said nothing, but I let him follow my eyes over to his opponents' bench where the coach was confined to a wheelchair. He sat down.

GoodwillRef Mon Jan 31, 2011 11:43am

Tough crap...maybe you shouldn't have gotten a technical foul...sit down!

mbyron Mon Jan 31, 2011 12:00pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef (Post 724184)
Tough crap...maybe you shouldn't have gotten a technical foul...sit down!

I'm thinking that, and saying: "Coach, the rule is that you cannot remain standing."

If he persists: "Coach, it's up to you where you go, but you cannot remain standing."

Scrapper1 Mon Jan 31, 2011 12:03pm

"Do you have a note on file with the state association for a waiver due to your medical condition?"

chymechowder Mon Jan 31, 2011 12:13pm

If you get another game with this coach, tell him before the tip that you have "bad ears" and you can't listen to any complaints about calls. ;)

Adam Mon Jan 31, 2011 12:33pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scrapper1 (Post 724191)
"Do you have a note on file with the state association for a waiver due to your medical condition?"

+1
I was going to suggest asking for a doctor's note. Also, ask him if he walked to the game. No noty no standy.

JugglingReferee Mon Jan 31, 2011 12:36pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by jTheUmp (Post 724152)
Happened to me a few days ago:

9th grade boys game.

Home team coach is in "question every call" mode, and I eventually whacked him (maybe a bit prematurely, but I'm sure he would've gotten one eventually anyway).

My partner explains to him the seatbelt rule, and this coach then informs my partner that he can't sit down, because he has a bad back and sitting is difficult for him.

How would you handle this situation:
a) "Coach, the rules now require you to be seated, and they make no allowance for your back injury."
b) "Ok, coach, in that case you can remain standing, but you must stand at the end of your bench and not be walking back and forth in the coaching box"
c) " ". Move on with the game, whack him again, if/when he's up walking around.
d) "Coach, you should've considered that before you actions necessitated the techincal foul"

Ok, probably not D, except in my head.

A couple of additional pieces of information that you may wish to take into consideration:
1) This was in the first half of a 9A/9B doubleheader. This coach was the coach for both the 9A team and the 9B team.
2) There were no assistant coaches for this coach's team.
3) Home team was up by about 15 points when I whacked him, and they ended up winning by almost 40 points.

My uncle was in a back cast for the better part of 2 years, and many times again throughout his life, so I am empathetic to back problems.

I would have asked what the issue is (so I could then report it to my LA), and permitted him to stand, but behind his chair, and reminded him that he doesn't have the coaching box to roam. I'd also remind him that a second technical foul results in an ejection.

I would then report the situation to my LA and hope that he's required to file a medical exemption.

GoodwillRef Mon Jan 31, 2011 01:12pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbyron (Post 724190)
I'm thinking that, and saying: "Coach, the rule is that you cannot remain standing."

If he persists: "Coach, it's up to you where you go, but you cannot remain standing."

You can lie on some chairs if that feels better! :)

RobbyinTN Mon Jan 31, 2011 01:20pm

I would have probably had them remove the chair where he would have been sitting and told him to stand there and if he moves out of that spot he is gone

mbyron Mon Jan 31, 2011 01:24pm

I don't like solutions to this issue that involve threatening the coach that he'll "be done." I'm going to enforce the rule regarding losing the coaching box, and not make any threats.

Rich Mon Jan 31, 2011 01:24pm

Maybe I'm a hard a$$, but I fail to see how this is my problem. Like someone up above said, I'm guessing he sat to ride/drive to the game.

He doesn't get the T, he doesn't have this problem. Sit or leave.

doubleringer Mon Jan 31, 2011 01:53pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichMSN (Post 724240)
Maybe I'm a hard a$$, but I fail to see how this is my problem. Like someone up above said, I'm guessing he sat to ride/drive to the game.

He doesn't get the T, he doesn't have this problem. Sit or leave.

I agree.

BillyMac Mon Jan 31, 2011 03:06pm

Laydown In The Bed Of A Pickup ???
 
I wonder how he's getting home?

RobbyinTN Mon Jan 31, 2011 03:17pm

I have been giving this more though since my first reply to this thread. It is my place as an official to enforce the rules. The rules state that he must sit. Nowhere in the rules does it say that I can make exceptions to that based on something he tells me that may or may not be true. If I give in on this one, do I make exceptions in other areas?

So I have re-thought my original position. Now, either the coach sits or he gets another T and he leaves.

26 Year Gap Mon Jan 31, 2011 03:46pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 724295)
I wonder how he's getting home?

I wonder if he has any chairs in his living room.

chymechowder Mon Jan 31, 2011 03:52pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 724295)
I wonder how he's getting home?

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/image...x5iziyocag.jpg

jTheUmp Mon Jan 31, 2011 04:03pm

Thanks for the replies, everyone.

I admit that this one really bothered me, for a couple of reasons:
1) My first reaction was that the coach was not being truthful, and that he was going to continue to stand as a way of disrespecting me.
2) He initially continued to walk back and forth in the coaching box area. During the next team timeout, I had a chat with my partner about it, with my position being "Ok, he can stand up, but he better be standing right on the end of his bench (actually a set of folding chairs) the entire time". My partner agreed.
3) Upon my partner insisting that he stay at one end of his bench, the coach started asking questions like "If I was sitting, I can sit anywhere on my bench, right?" Sure, I guess, but if you and the rest of the bench personnel are SITTING on the bench the entire time, as you're supposed to by rule, you're not going to be able to make your way back and forth unless you and your players are a LOT more comfortable then I would be.

My partner and I both talked to the coach at halftime, explained to him the rule, and that we were being VERY lenient with him. He stood for the rest of the second half, directly behind one of the chairs at the end of the bench.

The second game went much more smoothly despite the fact that it was a closely-contested game (2 point margin) and the drama of the first. The coach actually continued to stand behind the bench as before. For a moment, I considered telling him he could have his coaching box back, but I decided I liked it better when he thought he didn't have it.

Adam Mon Jan 31, 2011 04:24pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by jTheUmp (Post 724323)
The second game went much more smoothly despite the fact that it was a closely-contested game (2 point margin) and the drama of the first. The coach actually continued to stand behind the bench as before. For a moment, I considered telling him he could have his coaching box back, but I decided I liked it better when he thought he didn't have it.

Tough situation, you seem to have made the most out of it and learned. Can't ask for more.

BillyMac Mon Jan 31, 2011 05:43pm

“Heeeeeeeeeeeeey!” ...
 
The one, and only, way that I would allow the coach to stand would be if he had some type of documentation from the state interscholastic sports governing body, otherwise, in the words of the great Arthur Fonzerelli, “Just sit on it.”

http://radcollector.com/columns/rene...8/fonz_big.jpg

Mark Padgett Mon Jan 31, 2011 05:56pm

"Not a problem coach. I have some really strong painkillers in my bag. Just roll up your sleeve and I'll take care of it." :cool:

chymechowder Mon Jan 31, 2011 07:34pm

the "dream rod" belongs in the porn thread imo.

Judtech Mon Jan 31, 2011 09:48pm

My significant other and I have both had back surgeries. She has a difficult time sitting but brings a "seat cushion" to games so it won't upset her back.
I'd make him sit. Heck he can turn sideways and put his feet up on the bench if he wants but I am not giving any lee way on it.

constable Tue Feb 01, 2011 08:05am

How many of us have had back problems? Mine's been stiff for a week.

Don't get the T and you won't have to sit. I'd treat it different if my assignor told us too, but until then he's gotta sit.

If he doesn't want to sit, then he can stand all he wants- in the dressing room.

I agree with a previous poster, unless he drove a garbage truck, he most likely had to sit while driving.

It's not our problem.

jTheUmp Tue Feb 01, 2011 09:47am

UPDATE:
I emailed my association's clinician and described the situation. His response:

"From the way you had described the situation, I think you handled it the best way that you could have.... Personally, I would have made him sit for the rest of the game."

So there we go.

GoodwillRef Tue Feb 01, 2011 10:00am

Quote:

Originally Posted by jTheUmp (Post 724643)
UPDATE:
I emailed my association's clinician and described the situation. His response:

"From the way you had described the situation, I think you handled it the best way that you could have.... Personally, I would have made him sit for the rest of the game."

So there we go.

You should have made him sit Indian Style for the rest of the game.

Lcubed48 Fri Feb 04, 2011 10:04am

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef (Post 724649)
You should have made him sit Indian Style for the rest of the game.


Namaste!! :cool:

mbyron Fri Feb 04, 2011 10:28am

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef (Post 724649)
You should have made him sit Indian Style for the rest of the game.

Not politically correct. This position is now called "criss cross applesauce." :D

Adam Fri Feb 04, 2011 10:49am

I thought it was called "Yoda style."

26 Year Gap Fri Feb 04, 2011 11:32am

If the guy hadn't screamed for "Over the back" so many times using the Boris Karloff mechanic, then maybe his back would be fine.


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