Good luck or not?

bainsey

Snaqwells wrote
Get a grip and come down from your high horse

"High horse" is indeed an effective methaphor, but it's often used by those who don't want to meet a standard.

It's your stated opinion that expressing (in this forum) a dislike for this formality is somehow going to make us seem "more distant and unapproachable."

Yes, that's my opinion, but that's not what I said. I said "much of what we do has a ripple effect." That's a fact.

You don't teach respect to kids through ceremony. They see that crap for what it is.

So shaking hands is now a crappy move? Wow, you're cynical, and that's my opinion.

Certainly, one who shakes my hand one minute is not going to get away with cursing me out the next, but that's very rare, and I will remember the handshake, because the kids made a effort -- mandated or otherwise -- to be sportsmanlike. That's something that needs to be respected, not scrutinized.

26 Year Gap

How many here can remember even one handshake with an official as a player?

JRutledge

26 Year Gap wrote
How many here can remember even one handshake with an official as a player?

I cannot. But then again this was not the practice when I lived. I do remember when people will not shake my hand in and out of officiating. It tells me something about their relationship with me or maybe what they think of me. And yes it is usually not a positive interaction, which is why I continue to say, if you purposely ignore someone trying to give you a handshake that will be remembered by some longer than you think.

Peace

Adam

JRutledge wrote
I cannot. But then again this was not the practice when I lived. I do remember when people will not shake my hand in and out of officiating. It tells me something about their relationship with me or maybe what they think of me. And yes it is usually not a positive interaction, which is why I continue to say, if you purposely ignore someone trying to give you a handshake that will be remembered by some longer than you think.

Peace

I don't think anyone here has advocated ignoring a handshake attempt. I may have missed it, though.

RookieDude

JRutledge wrote
I just think it looks silly to deny a kid or coach a handshake when they come to you.

C'mon man...:p

Who said anything about DENYING a handshake...some of us (and some states and associations) just would prefer it be eliminated from the pre-game formality. No biggy either way...so we can all just relax.

I gotta go do a double header...and fist bump some kids tonight. 😉

26 Year Gap

I wasn't talking about ignoring or walking away from an attempt. I still remember a couple of opponents who refused to shake hands and put their hand behind their backs. That was in HS many years ago.

stir22

26 Year Gap wrote
I still remember a couple of opponents who refused to shake hands and put their hand behind their backs. That was in HS many years ago.

interesting. how did that game go?

Adam

bainsey wrote
"High horse" is indeed an effective methaphor, but it's often used by those who don't want to meet a standard.

I deleted it because it was over the top; I apologize.

You're half-wrong (by omission) about when it's used. It's used when someone presents a standard that's ridiculous.

bainsey wrote
Yes, that's my opinion, but that's not what I said. I said "much of what we do has a ripple effect." That's a fact.

And out of context, your statement is almost a truism. It's true because it's so vague.
In context, it's silly opinion, because you're saying that RD's expression of dislike for this particular ceremony has a ripple effect on sportsmanship with players who will never read this board.

If you really believe this, then I take back my statement that it was hyperbole.

It's stupid.

bainsey wrote
So shaking hands is now a crappy move? Wow, you're cynical, and that's my opinion.

I didn't say it was a crappy move. Thinking it has any bearing on a player's sportsmanship is crap (hyperbolic metaphor). Compared to actually teaching and modeling sportsmanship, it's crap. Kids see through it. Shaking hands is pointless without the teaching; and it's not necessary with it.

bainsey wrote
Certainly, one who shakes my hand one minute is not going to get away with cursing me out the next, but that's very rare, and I will remember the handshake, because the kids made a effort -- mandated or otherwise -- to be sportsmanlike. That's something that needs to be respected, not scrutinized.

I don't remember which teams shake my hand and which ones don't. If my wife asked me when I got home from the game, I probably wouldn't remember. I don't scrutinize it, either.

I think the idea of hiding from them is silly. But I also think it's silly to give too much credence to a formality.

JRutledge

RookieDude wrote
C'mon man...:p

Who said anything about DENYING a handshake...some of us (and some states and associations) just would prefer it be eliminated from the pre-game formality. No biggy either way...so we can all just relax.

I gotta go do a double header...and fist bump some kids tonight. 😉

It is not that important to me, but I believe someone said they would not do it if they were put into that situation or would go to great measures to not have to handshake. And no I do not recall it being you that said this first or when as we are almost at the double digit page level of this thread. And I am not sure who put it in the formalities at all, it seems like someone decided to do it and others followed. I see it as a gesture to us when they shake the opponents and coach's hands. Again, do not see the big deal even if it is contrived.

Peace

bainsey

Snaqwells wrote
I deleted it because it was over the top; I apologize.

Accepted.

In context, it's silly opinion, because you're saying that RD's expression of dislike for this particular ceremony has a ripple effect on sportsmanship with players who will never read this board.

No sir, that's not what I said. Go take another look. I said, the ripple effect comes from our actions on the court, not from an opinion here.

I didn't say it was a crappy move. Thinking it has any bearing on a player's sportsmanship is crap (hyperbolic metaphor). Compared to actually teaching and modeling sportsmanship, it's crap. Kids see through it. Shaking hands is pointless without the teaching; and it's not necessary with it.

Pointless without? Certainly, then it reeks of being disingenuous. Not necessary? Perhaps. However, I believe it's typically a part of a coach's standard for teaching sportsmanship. Until you have evidence otherwise, you'd have to go with that. Will some kids shake your hand reluctantly? Certainly. But, they'll typically get it as they grow.

I don't remember which teams shake my hand and which ones don't. If my wife asked me when I got home from the game, I probably wouldn't remember.

Therein lies the difference. I certainly would. Perhaps not a month or two later, but that night? Absolutely. I have a lot of respect those who choose to step it up.

Adam

bainsey wrote
No sir, that's not what I said. Go take another look. I said, the ripple effect comes from our actions on the court, not from an opinion here.

But the context was about a comment made on this board by someone who had already indicated he allows the handshakes in spite of his personal preference.

You wrote, "to even suggest that...." That's what I called hyperbole (from the beginning), and I stand by that now; given what you wrote above.

bainsey wrote
Pointless without? Certainly, then it reeks of being disingenuous. Not necessary? Perhaps. However, I believe it's typically a part of a coach's standard for teaching sportsmanship. Until you have evidence otherwise, you'd have to go with that. Will some kids shake your hand reluctantly? Certainly. But, they'll typically get it as they grow.

There's no evidence either way, so our opinions on this are equally valid.

bainsey wrote
Therein lies the difference. I certainly would. Perhaps not a month or two later, but that night? Absolutely. I have a lot of respect those who choose to step it up.

"Step it up?" Really? Yeah, that's the difference. It's no more stepping it up than when I salute an officer. 50% of the time, I do it because I have to. 50% of the time I do it because I actually respect that officer. None of them will ever know the difference.

Personally, I have no more nor less respect for those that do as opposed to those that don't.

26 Year Gap

stir22 wrote
interesting. how did that game go?

One basketball. One soccer. I always shook hands of opponents who fouled out. This one kid took exception to it. We won that game handily. The other was an Eastern Maine Soccer Championship, which we won 1-0 in OT. County rival. Always had close games. It was a well played game and this guy was next to me when the final horn went off. I was on a first name basis with a lot of his teammates. Found out their view of the kid and mine were not all that dissimilar.

bainsey

Snaqwells wrote
It's no more stepping it up than when I salute an officer. 50% of the time, I do it because I have to. 50% of the time I do it because I actually respect that officer. None of them will ever know the difference.

I think we're starting to see motivations here.

You have to salute an officer. (Thanks for your service, by the way. I salute you.) Coaches don't have to make their kids shake my hand. Therefore, I remember the teams that do. It may not always come from the heart (eye contact says a lot), but I remember the teams that "step it up."

Adam

bainsey wrote
I think we're starting to see motivations here.

You have to salute an officer. (Thanks for your service, by the way. I salute you.) Coaches don't have to make their kids shake my hand. Therefore, I remember the teams that do. It may not always come from the heart (eye contact says a lot), but I remember the teams that "step it up."

1. Not my point, but thank you.
2. We're going in circles now; I'm done.

M&M Guy

Snaqwells wrote
We're going in circles now; I'm done.

Don't windmills go in circles, too?

justacoach

26 Year Gap wrote
How many here can remember even one handshake with an official as a player?

I shook J. Dallas Shirley's hand in Arlington, VA on Feb 13, 1966. Haven't washed it since:cool:

26 Year Gap

justacoach wrote
I shook J. Dallas Shirley's hand in Arlington, VA on Feb 13, 1966. Haven't washed it since:cool:

Sounds OO to me.

biggravy

I'm not a big fan of the "fist bump". Don't like shaking that many hands. Usually around here we give high fives. When in Rome... if both my partners do the "fist bump" I do to. I like the interaction. I won't delay the game but I try to pleasantly interact with coaches, players, and occasionally fans. A long time ago I was told I called a good game but was not really liked by some coaches because I seemed unapproachable. I don't like that and have tried to change it. We are looked at as "the bad guy" enough as it is. I want to seem serious, yet casual. I want to convey that this is after all just a game. I want to seem human. It has worked for me for a long time now.

refiator

Get captains and coaches together at mid-court and regurgitate the GHSA script- "Coaches, are you players properly equipped and wearing their equipment properly?" Translation - we are also the fashion police, so be sure shirts are tucked and pants above the waste. Also. "Good sportsmanship is expected".
Dismiss coaches and tell speaking captain to control teammates and coaches. Good luck and have fun.

This is a 30 second meeting. The players aren't listening anyway. Not the time for a rules clinic and court description.😉

constable

bob jenkins wrote
I usually say "have fun."

When the kids run by during intros to fist bump us (I hate that, btw), I say "play hard."

I try to avoid saying "good luck" because someone, somewhere is going to mistakenly interpret that as me "rooting" for one team over the other (although if it was in the captain's meeting to both teams, it's less likely)

I say it at the captains meeting, when captains from both teams so there better not be anyone mistaking it as me rooting for anyone. I also say it when I meet each team's head coach.

NO captains meeting in FIBA. Mucccchhhh better system.

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