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Jfpdi Mon Jan 17, 2011 07:15pm

Stopped the Game
 
Had situation on Saturday. About 3 Mins remaining in a CYO game my partner blows the whistle and tells me we have a problem at the other end of the court. The roof started to leak and was dripping water near the lane line by the low block. He wanted to know what we should do. I told him that we would have to stop the game because a kid could get hurt. We informed the coaches that the game had to be stopped. The home coach who was leading 24 to 4 wanted to finish the game. I informed him that he could be liable but that my partner and I would not remain on the court as now that we were aware of a dangerous situation we would not continue the game unless it could be corrected. I am sure he had the kids best interests at heart. (Not!) The parish coordinator finally arrived at the gym, we explained the situation to her and she agreed that the game was over.

Mark Padgett Mon Jan 17, 2011 07:30pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jfpdi (Post 717684)
The home coach who was leading 24 to 4 wanted to finish the game.

If the wet section of the gym was on his frontcourt side, you could have told him you would finish the game on the other (dry) half of the gym only and all points scored by either team would count for the team whose frontcourt you were in.

Or - you could have done what I would have done with that jerk - smacked him upside the head with a frying pan (I carry one in my bag).

SCalScoreKeeper Mon Jan 17, 2011 07:40pm

I had a varsity doubleheader last season postponed due to the host school (not mine) having the same issue!

BillyMac Mon Jan 17, 2011 07:42pm

Easy Peasy Lemon Squeezy ...
 
Varsity prep school game on Saturday. With thirty seven seconds left in the first half (they play sixteen minute halves) a kid jumps to block a shot, cleaning blocks it, but in doing so dislocates his shoulder. Screaming in pain, he knows what he did, because he had had some problems with the shoulder earlier in the season, and he pops the shoulder back in to place. I immediately sound the whistle, beckon the coach, and tell the other nine players to go to their benches. Coach is both the coach, and the trainer, and is administering to the kid, planning to ice the shoulder, and put the arm in a sling. I suggest to the opposing coach that we end the half and start the second half with 16:37 on the clock. He thinks it's a good idea, so I run it by the coach of the injured player, who agrees. We start the second half ten minutes later with 16:37 on the clock, and the injured kid iced up, and properly slinged, on the bench. (NFHS 2-3)

BktBallRef Mon Jan 17, 2011 10:08pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 717707)
Varsity prep school game on Saturday. With thirty seven seconds left in the first half (they play sixteen minute halves) a kid jumps to block a shot, cleaning blocks it, but in doing so dislocates his shoulder. Screaming in pain, he knows what he did, because he had had some problems with the shoulder earlier in the season, and he pops the shoulder back in to place. I immediately sound the whistle, beckon the coach, and tell the other nine players to go to their benches. Coach is both the coach, and the trainer, and is administering to the kid, planning to ice the shoulder, and put the arm in a sling. I suggest to the opposing coach that we end the half and start the second half with 16:37 on the clock. He thinks it's a good idea, so I run it by the coach of the injured player, who agrees. We start the second half ten minutes later with 16:37 on the clock, and the injured kid iced up, and properly slinged, on the bench. (NFHS 2-3)

2-3? :confused:

2-3 covers issues that aren't covered by rule. This situation is definitely covered by rule. You allow the coach to remove the player, request a sub, the coach sends one in, you play the 37 seconds and you finish the half. THen the coach/trainer can attend to the player if need be.

There is absolutely no rule that allows you to do what you did.

JugglingReferee Mon Jan 17, 2011 10:37pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 717707)
Varsity prep school game on Saturday. With thirty seven seconds left in the first half (they play sixteen minute halves) a kid jumps to block a shot, cleaning blocks it, but in doing so dislocates his shoulder. Screaming in pain, he knows what he did, because he had had some problems with the shoulder earlier in the season, and he pops the shoulder back in to place. I immediately sound the whistle, beckon the coach, and tell the other nine players to go to their benches. Coach is both the coach, and the trainer, and is administering to the kid, planning to ice the shoulder, and put the arm in a sling. I suggest to the opposing coach that we end the half and start the second half with 16:37 on the clock. He thinks it's a good idea, so I run it by the coach of the injured player, who agrees. We start the second half ten minutes later with 16:37 on the clock, and the injured kid iced up, and properly slinged, on the bench. (NFHS 2-3)

We use this tool once a year in football.

Camron Rust Tue Jan 18, 2011 03:33am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BktBallRef (Post 717811)
2-3? :confused:

2-3 covers issues that aren't covered by rule. This situation is definitely covered by rule. You allow the coach to remove the player, request a sub, the coach sends one in, you play the 37 seconds and you finish the half. THen the coach/trainer can attend to the player if need be.

There is absolutely no rule that allows you to do what you did.

Maybe so, but I generally like the way it was handled....the rules do allow the periods to be shortened by an agreement between the coaches and the Referee. They just don't permit the extra time to be added to a later period. Technically, the only legal manner to have done something similar would be to declare 1st half over (with all in agreement) and start the 2nd half normally.

GoodwillRef Tue Jan 18, 2011 07:02am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jfpdi (Post 717684)
Had situation on Saturday. About 3 Mins remaining in a CYO game my partner blows the whistle and tells me we have a problem at the other end of the court. The roof started to leak and was dripping water near the lane line by the low block. He wanted to know what we should do. I told him that we would have to stop the game because a kid could get hurt. We informed the coaches that the game had to be stopped. The home coach who was leading 24 to 4 wanted to finish the game. I informed him that he could be liable but that my partner and I would not remain on the court as now that we were aware of a dangerous situation we would not continue the game unless it could be corrected. I am sure he had the kids best interests at heart. (Not!) The parish coordinator finally arrived at the gym, we explained the situation to her and she agreed that the game was over.

What type of chemicals do they use to wax gym floors that make coaches go brain dead in this types of situations?

JugglingReferee Tue Jan 18, 2011 09:15am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 717945)
Maybe so, but I generally like the way it was handled....the rules do allow the periods to be shortened by an agreement between the coaches and the Referee. They just don't permit the extra time to be added to a later period. Technically, the only legal manner to have done something similar would be to declare 1st half over (with all in agreement) and start the 2nd half normally.

One could interpret at-the-time that the shortening of the periods was meant for each quarter to be reduced by the same amount, and therefore use 2-3 to add the 37s to the 2nd half. :eek:

Rich Tue Jan 18, 2011 09:37am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BktBallRef (Post 717811)
2-3? :confused:

2-3 covers issues that aren't covered by rule. This situation is definitely covered by rule. You allow the coach to remove the player, request a sub, the coach sends one in, you play the 37 seconds and you finish the half. THen the coach/trainer can attend to the player if need be.

There is absolutely no rule that allows you to do what you did.

I'd do it differently, myself. We'd take the halftime break there, come back and play the remaining :37 on the clock. Then I'd give them a minute and then start the second half.

bob jenkins Tue Jan 18, 2011 09:40am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 717707)
Varsity prep school game on Saturday. With thirty seven seconds left in the first half (they play sixteen minute halves) a kid jumps to block a shot, cleaning blocks it, but in doing so dislocates his shoulder. Screaming in pain, he knows what he did, because he had had some problems with the shoulder earlier in the season, and he pops the shoulder back in to place. I immediately sound the whistle, beckon the coach, and tell the other nine players to go to their benches. Coach is both the coach, and the trainer, and is administering to the kid, planning to ice the shoulder, and put the arm in a sling. I suggest to the opposing coach that we end the half and start the second half with 16:37 on the clock. He thinks it's a good idea, so I run it by the coach of the injured player, who agrees. We start the second half ten minutes later with 16:37 on the clock, and the injured kid iced up, and properly slinged, on the bench. (NFHS 2-3)

Better, imo:

Take "half time" now.

Then, play the remaining :37 seconds on the first half (start with POI and use the horn, and the last second shot, etc.). Then "immediately" start the second half with a throw-in to the team having the arrow.

BktBallRef Tue Jan 18, 2011 12:06pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichMSN (Post 718117)
I'd do it differently, myself. We'd take the halftime break there, come back and play the remaining :37 on the clock. Then I'd give them a minute and then start the second half.

I just really don't see the point in not finishing out the half. The was a varsity HS game. I'm pretty sure it wouldn't go over real well at the state association office.

This time, it was 37 seconds. How much time is allowable the next time it happens? 1 minute? 5 minutes? Makes no sense to me.

Adam Tue Jan 18, 2011 12:20pm

I really don't see the point of doing anything beyond normal in Billy's situation? Did it take an hour to get the kid off the court or something?

Raymond Tue Jan 18, 2011 12:28pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 718228)
I really don't see the point of doing anything beyond normal in Billy's situation? Did it take an hour to get the kid off the court or something?

Not to speak for Billy but I'm sure this is why is chose to do what he did:

Quote:

..Coach is both the coach, and the trainer, and is administering to the kid, planning to ice the shoulder, and put the arm in a sling...

Adam Tue Jan 18, 2011 12:36pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 718239)
Not to speak for Billy but I'm sure this is why is chose to do what he did:

Didn't catch the nuance there. In that case (assuming the coach needs to leave the court to tend to the player), I'd probably go with Camron's suggestion. End the first half there with approval of both coaches.

Rich Tue Jan 18, 2011 12:52pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BktBallRef (Post 718212)
I just really don't see the point in not finishing out the half. The was a varsity HS game. I'm pretty sure it wouldn't go over real well at the state association office.

That's not something I concern myself with. With the coach being the coach and trainer, it's a reasonable solution as long as the ball is played POI and a quarter break is given after the quarter ends.

Why would the state office know, anyway? Do you think a coach will be on the phone the next morning complaining?

BktBallRef Tue Jan 18, 2011 03:43pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichMSN (Post 718262)
That's not something I concern myself with. With the coach being the coach and trainer, it's a reasonable solution as long as the ball is played POI and a quarter break is given after the quarter ends.

I guess I'm different, as our supervisor doesn't expect us to take things like this into our hands and come up with something that has no rule basis whatsoever. Sorry, I just don't see any reason to not finish the quarter. It's 37 seconds, the kid's not dying.

Quote:

Why would the state office know, anyway? Do you think a coach will be on the phone the next morning complaining?
Calls are made and videos are sent to the state all the time for all kinds of reasons. The opposing coach could tell you he's fine with it and still call to ***** about it. Or he could get pissed at you later in the game and call anyway.

I just don't put myself in situations like this, where my actions aren't supported by rule.

And I'm certainly not going to try to justify it with 2-3 when the rules are very clear on what needs to happen.

Rich Tue Jan 18, 2011 03:56pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BktBallRef (Post 718377)
I guess I'm different, as our supervisor doesn't expect us to take things like this into our hands and come up with something that has no rule basis whatsoever. Sorry, I just don't see any reason to not finish the quarter. It's 37 seconds, the kid's not dying.



Calls are made and videos are sent to the state all the time for all kinds of reasons. The opposing coach could tell you he's fine with it and still call to ***** about it. Or he could get pissed at you later in the game and call anyway.

I just don't put myself in situations like this, where my actions aren't supported by rule.

And I'm certainly not going to try to justify it with 2-3 when the rules are very clear on what needs to happen.

I think it's well supported. The coach is also the athletic trainer and it's unknown how long the delay will be since the coach, himself, will have to attend to the players.

I feel I'm on solid ground if someone wants to call the state. They can go for it.

BillyMac Tue Jan 18, 2011 05:49pm

Always Listen To bob, And RichMSN ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RichMSN (Post 718117)
We'd take the halftime break there, come back and play the remaining :37 on the clock. Then I'd give them a minute and then start the second half.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 718119)
Take "half time" now. Then, play the remaining :37 seconds on the first half (start with POI and use the horn, and the last second shot, etc.). Then "immediately" start the second half with a throw-in to the team having the arrow.

Much better ideas than mine. I guess that I'm not very good at thinking on my feet. Now that I think about it, what if there were a foul in the first thirty seven seconds of the "second" half, and the fouled team would have been in the bonus in the first half?

BillyMac Tue Jan 18, 2011 05:54pm

Slings And Arrows Of Outrageous Fortune ....
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RichMSN (Post 718262)
With the coach being the coach and trainer.

I apologize. I should have made myself clearer. The coach was the only adult on the bench. No trainer. If I had asked for a substitute after twenty seconds there would have been no one to coach the team for the last thirty seven seconds of the first half because the coach was tending to the injured player, asking for ice, figuring out how to make a sling, etc.


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