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-   -   Technical Foul or Ejection...what would you do? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/60621-technical-foul-ejection-what-would-you-do.html)

GoodwillRef Mon Jan 17, 2011 08:53am

Technical Foul or Ejection...what would you do?
 
You call a foul on a player and he walks right by you and says to you, "you are a piece of Sh*t!" Do you just give him a technical or do you eject him?

JugglingReferee Mon Jan 17, 2011 09:06am

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef (Post 717350)
You call a foul on a player and he walks right by you and says to you, "you are a piece of Sh*t!" Do you just give him a technical or do you eject him?

DQ.

In a football game, I once had a Referee end the game when a player did something similar.

Rich Mon Jan 17, 2011 09:16am

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef (Post 717350)
You call a foul on a player and he walks right by you and says to you, "you are a piece of Sh*t!" Do you just give him a technical or do you eject him?

Flagrant technical. I would, when asked, tell the coach exactly what the player said, too.

GoodwillRef Mon Jan 17, 2011 09:25am

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichMSN (Post 717364)
Flagrant technical. I would, when asked, tell the coach exactly what the player said, too.

I would agree...when I give a player a technical and the coach asks me what did they say I always repeat it exactly.

Maineac Mon Jan 17, 2011 09:31am

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichMSN (Post 717364)
Flagrant technical. I would, when asked, tell the coach exactly what the player said, too.

I agree as well, I would give him the gate.

Welpe Mon Jan 17, 2011 10:14am

Say goodnight, Gracie.

26 Year Gap Mon Jan 17, 2011 10:24am

So, what happened?

mj Mon Jan 17, 2011 10:25am

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef (Post 717370)
I would agree...when I give a player a technical and the coach asks me what did they say I always repeat it exactly.

I do the same. DQ

Terrapins Fan Mon Jan 17, 2011 10:30am

Quote:

Originally Posted by jugglingreferee (Post 717354)
dq

+1

BktBallRef Mon Jan 17, 2011 10:33am

WHACK Get out!

JohnDorian37 Mon Jan 17, 2011 10:51am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BktBallRef (Post 717402)

gotta love the sound effects. i'll wait til i'm in the NBA to pull that out, though.

bainsey Mon Jan 17, 2011 10:51am

Easiest call of the day. Flagrant T.

Rich Mon Jan 17, 2011 11:14am

It's a flagrant technical is a COACH says it, so it's certainly one if a player says it. Life's too short to put up with that crap.

GoodwillRef Mon Jan 17, 2011 11:38am

Quote:

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap (Post 717397)
So, what happened?

The play in question the official just gave the player a technical.

JugglingReferee Mon Jan 17, 2011 11:43am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BktBallRef (Post 717402)

I wish we had more of an opportunity to hear mic'd up NBE officials! Thanks Tony.

mj Mon Jan 17, 2011 12:34pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef (Post 717429)
The play in question the official just gave the player a technical.

That's unfortunate. Maybe he didn't want to write a report.

BktBallRef Mon Jan 17, 2011 12:44pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee (Post 717433)
I wish we had more of an opportunity to hear mic'd up NBE officials! Thanks Tony.

While I'm sure the thing that we could never get away with saying something like that, the NBA is very different. The thing that impresses me is how calm and collected Garretson is. He's firm, unemotional, and completely clear in everything he says and does in this situation. Totally in control.

jeffpea Mon Jan 17, 2011 01:10pm

I'll hit him w/ a T, but I'm not tossin' him for that....

Adam Mon Jan 17, 2011 01:13pm

Well, that makes two. Jeffpea and the official on the court.

Rich Mon Jan 17, 2011 01:14pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffpea (Post 717487)
I'll hit him w/ a T, but I'm not tossin' him for that....

For calling you a piece of sh!t?

I'm not one who finds a huge problem with the word sh!t (see the other thread), but when someone calls me a name like that, they're not sticking around.

rockyroad Mon Jan 17, 2011 01:15pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffpea (Post 717487)
I'll hit him w/ a T, but I'm not tossin' him for that....

Seriously???

So what, exactly, does a player have to say in order for you to toss him/her?:confused:

Adam Mon Jan 17, 2011 01:20pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockyroad (Post 717493)
Seriously???

So what, exactly, does a player have to say in order for you to toss him/her?:confused:

"You're a fu@k1ng piece of sh1t." That might do it.

GoodwillRef Mon Jan 17, 2011 01:33pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by snaqwells (Post 717498)
"you're a fu@k1ng piece of sh1t." that might do it.

+1

GoodwillRef Mon Jan 17, 2011 01:34pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffpea (Post 717487)
I'll hit him w/ a T, but I'm not tossin' him for that....

You are right...you are not tossing him...he is tossing himself.

26 Year Gap Mon Jan 17, 2011 02:32pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 717498)
"You're a fu@k1ng piece of sh1t." That might do it.

Fixed it for ya. No charge.

Judtech Mon Jan 17, 2011 03:05pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 717498)
"You're a fu@k1ng piece of sh1t." That might do it.

"I know you are but what am I' had great success for me early on.:D
Now I would just say "Thank you for playing we have lovely departing gifts for you!"

JugglingReferee Mon Jan 17, 2011 03:13pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef (Post 717507)
You are right...you are not tossing him...he is tossing himself.

Exactly.

For one of the best examples of this, see this video: YouTube - Dante Wesley's hit on Clifton Smith LAID OUT!!!!

stiffler3492 Mon Jan 17, 2011 04:16pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee (Post 717433)
I wish we had more of an opportunity to hear mic'd up NBE officials! Thanks Tony.

I'll second that. After reading Tim Donaghy's book and Bob Delaney's (there was only a little bit about officiating in the NBA in that one), I'd love to be able to see a special on HBO or something, uncensored of course

SCalScoreKeeper Mon Jan 17, 2011 07:42pm

Ring him up for the T-If it is #2 and you have to write the report so be it.

jeffpea Mon Jan 17, 2011 09:32pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockyroad (Post 717493)
Seriously???

So what, exactly, does a player have to say in order for you to toss him/her?:confused:

I guess I'd have to say that if the player threatens another player, official, or myself, THEN I would toss 'em with a flagrant tech.....

would you have acted differently if the player had said "that call was a f_*cking piece of $h!t"?

Welpe Mon Jan 17, 2011 09:49pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffpea (Post 717783)

would you have acted differently if the player had said "that call was a f_*cking piece of $h!t"?

Say goodnight, Gracie.

BktBallRef Mon Jan 17, 2011 09:59pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffpea (Post 717783)
I guess I'd have to say that if the player threatens another player, official, or myself, THEN I would toss 'em with a flagrant tech.....

would you have acted differently if the player had said "that call was a f_*cking piece of $h!t"?

It's still an ejection, and a 2 game susepnsion, here.

You simply can't allow a player to disrespect you in this fashion. It's uncalled for whether on the court, in the classroom and in society in general. Allow a player to get away with it without an ejection and you've just told him he can say anything he wants to.

Jurassic Referee Mon Jan 17, 2011 09:59pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffpea (Post 717783)
would you have acted differently if the player had said "that call was a f_*cking piece of $h!t"?

No. Buh-bye.

jeffpea Tue Jan 18, 2011 11:47am

at least most of you are consistent...you would toss 'em either way.

i wouldn't say that i've got "thicker skin" than you guys (that would come off as being demeaning to some - and that's not my intention), i just have a different perspective (maybe it's because 75% of my schedule is college).

are you giving the flagrant T because he used profanity? are you ejecting him because his comments are directed at you? in your mind, what boundary did the player cross from an unsportsman-like T to a flagrant T?

imho, the 3 officials on the floor need to be the calmest people in the building. a T is just another call and not something to get emotional over (of course that is easier said than done).

Welpe Tue Jan 18, 2011 11:55am

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffpea (Post 718187)
i wouldn't say that i've got "thicker skin" than you guys (that would come off as being demeaning to some - and that's not my intention), i just have a different perspective (maybe it's because 75% of my schedule is college).

are you giving the flagrant T because he used profanity? are you ejecting him because his comments are directed at you? in your mind, what boundary did the player cross from an unsportsman-like T to a flagrant T?

imho, the 3 officials on the floor need to be the calmest people in the building. a T is just another call and not something to get emotional over (of course that is easier said than done).


Thick skin has nothing to do with it. I am not personally offended by something that a player, coach or fan says to me. I don't react emotionally when a player or coach calls me something. I will, however, penalize what I deem to be unsporting, vulgar or disrespectful.

Calling an official a "piece of sh%^" crosses two lines at the same time, personal and profane.

Your second example is just plain vulgar.

I'm not going to tolerate either in my games. Showing the officials that much disrespect should never be considered de rigeur.

Out of curiosity, how do you equate issuing a flagrant T with "getting emotional"?

BktBallRef Tue Jan 18, 2011 12:00pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffpea (Post 718187)
at least most of you are consistent...you would toss 'em either way.

i wouldn't say that i've got "thicker skin" than you guys (that would come off as being demeaning to some - and that's not my intention), i just have a different perspective (maybe it's because 75% of my schedule is college).

College maybe different, although I doubt very many D1 officials would let this go. Either way, in HS, no matter how much college I call, he's gone.

Quote:

are you giving the flagrant T because he used profanity? are you ejecting him because his comments are directed at you? in your mind, what boundary did the player cross from an unsportsman-like T to a flagrant T?
The comments would draw a T. Add the profanity and that gets the ejection.

Quote:

imho, the 3 officials on the floor need to be the calmest people in the building. a T is just another call and not something to get emotional over (of course that is easier said than done).
I didn't read where anyone said emotions had to do anything with it. The fact is, a teacher wouldn't allow a student to disrespect him in such a way and remain in the classroom. I don't see this as being any different.

Rich Tue Jan 18, 2011 12:00pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffpea (Post 718187)
at least most of you are consistent...you would toss 'em either way.

i wouldn't say that i've got "thicker skin" than you guys (that would come off as being demeaning to some - and that's not my intention), i just have a different perspective (maybe it's because 75% of my schedule is college).

are you giving the flagrant T because he used profanity? are you ejecting him because his comments are directed at you? in your mind, what boundary did the player cross from an unsportsman-like T to a flagrant T?

imho, the 3 officials on the floor need to be the calmest people in the building. a T is just another call and not something to get emotional over (of course that is easier said than done).

I can (and have) ejected people (mainly from baseball games) with not a single bit of emotion. I've called 2 technical fouls this season and neither of them involved any emotion (that's not always the case, but more and more as I get older and wiser).

A college player isn't calling me (or a call) an f-ing piece of sh!t the same as a HS player isn't. Emotion has nothing to do with it. There's a line and that comment obliterates that line.

Adam Tue Jan 18, 2011 12:01pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffpea (Post 718187)
at least most of you are consistent...you would toss 'em either way.

i wouldn't say that i've got "thicker skin" than you guys (that would come off as being demeaning to some - and that's not my intention), i just have a different perspective (maybe it's because 75% of my schedule is college).

are you giving the flagrant T because he used profanity? are you ejecting him because his comments are directed at you? in your mind, what boundary did the player cross from an unsportsman-like T to a flagrant T?

imho, the 3 officials on the floor need to be the calmest people in the building. a T is just another call and not something to get emotional over (of course that is easier said than done).

So calling an official a "piece of sh1t" is a simple T in college? Scrappy, are you listening? Is that what you'd do?

johnsonboys03 Tue Jan 18, 2011 12:07pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichMSN (Post 717491)
For calling you a piece of sh!t?

I'm not one who finds a huge problem with the word sh!t (see the other thread), but when someone calls me a name like that, they're not sticking around.

what would you have done if he called you terrible? I dought you would have tossed him for that.....hmmmm maybe sh*t does have some offensive sides to it?

Adam Tue Jan 18, 2011 12:33pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnsonboys03 (Post 718214)
what would you have done if he called you terrible? I dought you would have tossed him for that.....hmmmm maybe sh*t does have some offensive sides to it?

It depends on the meaning. Rich's point is that a self-directed utterance like that can go ignored. An intended insult to the official, not so much. I'm still figuring what I'd do if a player called me a "Piece of crap."

chartrusepengui Tue Jan 18, 2011 12:42pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 718245)
I'm still figuring what I'd do if a player called me a "Piece of crap."

Would it make a difference if he said "a BIG piece of crap"?:D

Adam Tue Jan 18, 2011 12:45pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by chartrusepengui (Post 718257)
Would it make a difference if he said "a BIG piece of crap"?:D

In that case, he'd be right. :D

Rich Tue Jan 18, 2011 12:47pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnsonboys03 (Post 718214)
what would you have done if he called you terrible? I dought you would have tossed him for that.....hmmmm maybe sh*t does have some offensive sides to it?

Nice try.

"You're a piece of garbage" would be a flagrant technical, too.

chartrusepengui Tue Jan 18, 2011 01:04pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichMSN (Post 718261)
Nice try.

"You're a piece of garbage" would be a flagrant technical, too.

Wow!! You can spell "garbage" on here without worrying about it being deleted? It's a good thing I don't offend easily!!:rolleyes:

Scrapper1 Tue Jan 18, 2011 01:11pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 718204)
So calling an official a "piece of sh1t" is a simple T in college? Scrappy, are you listening? Is that what you'd do?

In HS, this is a no-brainer flagrant T for me. In college, it's probably around 95% probability of being a flagrant. There's always a small possibility that there's some context, maybe there's been some joking back-and-forth that makes it less offensive. But that's got to be a pretty small likelihood. I can't imagine that there are too many D1 refs who tolerate being called that by an 18-year-old; so why should I tolerate it from my D3 guys?

GoodwillRef Tue Jan 18, 2011 01:56pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffpea (Post 718187)
at least most of you are consistent...you would toss 'em either way.

i wouldn't say that i've got "thicker skin" than you guys (that would come off as being demeaning to some - and that's not my intention), i just have a different perspective (maybe it's because 75% of my schedule is college).

are you giving the flagrant T because he used profanity? are you ejecting him because his comments are directed at you? in your mind, what boundary did the player cross from an unsportsman-like T to a flagrant T?

imho, the 3 officials on the floor need to be the calmest people in the building. a T is just another call and not something to get emotional over (of course that is easier said than done).

Thick skin has nothing to do with it...the NCAA has had sporting behavior as a POE for a couple of years now and this type of behavior should not be tolerated at any level. If I toss this kid and tell my college supervisor why she would say good job.

chymechowder Tue Jan 18, 2011 02:21pm

not to split hairs, but does it make any difference if they say, "That's a piece of **** CALL" ?

if they profanely deride the call (rather than the person who made it), that still gets a technical, I imagine. but is it not an ejection?

bob jenkins Tue Jan 18, 2011 02:25pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by chymechowder (Post 718315)
not to split hairs, but does it make any difference if they say, "That's a piece of **** CALL" ?

if they profanely deride the call (rather than the person who made it), that still gets a technical, I imagine. but is it not an ejection?

Yes, it makes a difference. Your recent example could just be aT, depending on volume, etc.

Rich Tue Jan 18, 2011 02:26pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by chymechowder (Post 718315)
not to split hairs, but does it make any difference if they say, "That's a piece of **** CALL" ?

if they profanely deride the call (rather than the person who made it), that still gets a technical, I imagine. but is it not an ejection?

A player? I'd whack him. Not flagrant. Unless he screamed it at the top of his lungs, and then it would be the volume and aggressiveness (not the word) that got him tossed.

A coach? Depends, really. If he says it quietly, I probably pass on it.

Of course, I don't get hung up on the word sh!t. :D

Adam Tue Jan 18, 2011 02:46pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by chymechowder (Post 718315)
not to split hairs, but does it make any difference if they say, "That's a piece of **** CALL" ?

if they profanely deride the call (rather than the person who made it), that still gets a technical, I imagine. but is it not an ejection?

Yes, it makes a difference.
Player or coach, most likely a standard T.

Jurassic Referee Tue Jan 18, 2011 02:52pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffpea (Post 718187)
i wouldn't say that i've got "thicker skin" than you guys (that would come off as being demeaning to some - and that's not my intention), i just have a different perspective (maybe it's because 75% of my schedule is college).

Interesting statement. Personally I know few ...if any....college officials at any college level that would ever dream of letting any player say anything like that to them though.

But you sureasheck are allowed to have your own different perspective. It is certainly "different" in my experience though. And I personally can't agree with it either fwiw.

rockyroad Tue Jan 18, 2011 03:15pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffpea (Post 718187)

i wouldn't say that i've got "thicker skin" than you guys (that would come off as being demeaning to some - and that's not my intention), i just have a different perspective (maybe it's because 75% of my schedule is college).

That's really the wrong argument to use with some of the people who frequent this forum. My supervisors have always said that if they drop the f-bomb on us personally, or about a call we make, toss them. Plain and simple. In the case of "You're a piece of sh!t", I tossed a player for that and had 100% backing from the supervisor, the conference, the conference commissioner, etc...there's no place for that in NFHS, NCAA, or any other level of basketball.

26 Year Gap Tue Jan 18, 2011 05:16pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockyroad (Post 718357)
that's really the wrong argument to use with some of the people who frequent this forum. My supervisors have always said that if they drop the f-bomb on us personally, or about a call we make, toss them. Plain and simple. In the case of "you're a piece of sh!t", i tossed a player for that and had 100% backing from the supervisor, the conference, the conference commissioner, etc...there's no place for that in nfhs, ncaa, or any other level of basketball.

+1

fullor30 Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:58am

Surprised this actually a question. If you don't, then the statement is true, at least as an official.


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