Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 717614)

LOL, I see no shame in getting to the division line when there's a quick steal and the player gets fouled in transition at the FT line.

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. (Post 717638)

Second, I know that the NFHS and NCAA Men's Casebooks tell us that your situation is a DPF. BUT, by rule, a Blarge; that is a crock of horse manure. Oops! I mean that is impossible!

The NCAA Women's CCA Mechnics Manual covers a blarge correctly. Only one official can have the call and it should (99.999,999,999,999% of the time) be the official who has primary coverage, and in your case: YOU!.

I would have come in strong and taken the call. If your partner wanted to parley (I think I spelled it correctly) with you about the fouls (whenever there is a DF, it is always good mechanics to meet at the center circle to discuss the situation before reporting it) I would have told him that I had the call and we were going to have only one foul. If the A-HC wants to know why only A1 only called for a foul (charge) and that B1 was not charged with block making the foul a DPF, tell him that your whistle was first.

Very very rarely (only 0.000,000,000,001% of the time; yes, the two percentage figures add up to 100%) will I disagree with a Casebook Play, AND this is one of them and I will impose my will with my partner(s) on this one.

Blarge calls occur most of the time (99.999,999,999,999% of the time) when one official starts to ball watch and is watching out of his primary. A good pregame conference will eleiminate blarges from one's game; that means, we do not have blarges in my games.

The last time I had a blarge situation was about six years ago in a MichiganHSAA boys' H.S. varsity game. Team V was pressing in the first half and I was the T (Table Side--TS) at the time of the play. V1, while in his team's backcourt, was dribbling the ball up the court along the TS Sideline. H1 obtained a LGP against V1 just in Team V's backcour where the Division Line and the Sideline intersect, taking the Sideline away from V1. V1 ran H1 over and I came up strong with a stop clock for foul signal followed by a PCF signal.

The L, (who was also the R for the game and had stated numerous times that pregame conferences aren't needed in his games) who should have been on the Endline watching off the ball, was stadning on the TS-Sideline where Team H's freethrow line intersected the Sideline watching the ball (you do not want me to further evaluate is abilities as a L in a three-man officiating crew) and at the same moment that I sounded my whistle for V1's charge he came in with his own whistle for a block by H1, :eek:.

He came to me to tell me that we had DPF (the dreaded blarge in this case), and I told him that we did not. He said that we did, and I told him that he had no business even looking at the ball and that he should have had his tuchus down on the Endline officiating off the ball. :eek:, by him, LOL.

I told him that I had 100% on ball coverage in this play and that there was only going to be one whistle and that it was going to be mine. And that is what we went with. The halftime get together was very quiet. But the rest of the game is another story, because even his long time partner (I was a league assigned substitute) turned on him by the end of the game. It was not pretty in the dressing room after the game.

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee (Post 717669)

Un-freaking-believable!!!! :rolleyes:

Not only do you deny the existence of a very plainly written case book play on blarges, you also advocate using a procedure that goes directly against the mandate of a very plainly written rule i.e. NFHS rule 2-6.

If you ever pulled that crap in my association, you'd never officiate another game here. And if you ever tried to pull that crap on any of our experienced officials during a game, your azz would be outside in a snowbank in one helluva big hurry. You might get away with intimidating a rookie with that nonsense but that just doesn't work with experienced officials who know the rules.

We want our officials to follow the rules, not make up their own.

You've come up with some real dandies lately, Mark, but you've outdone even yourself this time. No wonder they don't give you varsity games anymore.

Un-freaking-believable!!!!

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 717683)

Not exactly how I would have worded it, but +1.

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee (Post 717693)

You know better and I know better, and the other knowledgeable people here know better...

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. (Post 717710)

...Over the years (forty to be exact), there have been a few (very few, 0.000,000,000,001% of them maybe even less) Casebook (NFHS and NCAA Men's/Women's) and Approved Rulings (NCAA Men's/Women's) which I did not completely agree with BUT the 'blarge' Casebook (NFHS) and Approved Ruling (NCAA Men's) is absolutely and completely wrong. It canNOT ever be defended by rule. Either the defender has obtained (NFHS)/established (NCAA Men's/Women's and FIBA) a LGP or he has not.

Originally Posted by RichMSN (Post 717721)

I've had one, too, since 1987. Last year. College men's game. I'm the L. Block/charge on a secondary defender. We always give that to the L. For some reason the trail called it with a finger point the other way and it was such a no brainer block and so clearly my call to make that I didn't even consider that he would call it, let alone so badly.

And I'm not sure that even had I seen my partner call the charge first if I would've ceded that call to him. When a call is SO wrong outside of a PCA, I don't see why the crew and the game should have to live with the call because he was quicker to the table.

Going AP is in the rules because there are officials out there who would refuse to cede to the other official in this situation, but I think we should be allowed to talk and determine if one of us is simply wrong and then report that to the table. AP is the rule, but AP is flat-out stupid.

Originally Posted by vbzebra (Post 717324)

Moral of the story, please discuss THIS specific situation in pregame so it doesn't happen to YOU!!!!

Originally Posted by bktballref (Post 717737)

moral of this story, slow down, raise your fist, and make eye contact with your partner before giving a preliminary signal. :eek:

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee (Post 717669)

You've come up with some real dandies lately, Mark, but you've outdone even yourself this time. Un-freaking-believable!!!!

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer (Post 717727)

Don't we go to the POI for double fouls? AP isn't always the POI in this situation.

Originally Posted by BktBallRef (Post 717742)

Yes, if there's team contro, there's no AP. But usually, there's a shot in the air, and if that shot is missed, AP arrow. Make the shot, count the basket and give it to B or if there is no shot, give it back to A.