Warranted T?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by TheOracle

He's saying the coaches do not rate him well. There is a reason for that. Officials that are "unapproachable" never prosper, and that label is easy to get and hard to shake, fair or not. The #1 reason officials have moved down the ladder or been dropped from my rosters over the past 15 years is coaches feedback that they are unapproachable, and that is universally true at every level until you are an established D-1 official. Sometimes, coaches need to be dealt with bluntly, given technicals, and even be ejected, but when that happens, it is how we do that which makes the difference. Being approachable and professional in all we do matters. Cutting off a coach like that is generally not a great idea. This is a people business.

I'm glad coaches have ZERO input into our high school evaluations.

[zakman2005000]

Originally Posted by TheOracle

This conversation tells me that you are unapproachable. That will stunt your progress at any level past JV Boys. Whether coaches get to directly rate or not, rest assured that coaches talk to each other and to your supervisor. You are fortunate to have that data point, so you can choose to do something about it and help yourself. You need to find a better balance between listening to coaches and managing them. Focus and listening and understanding what they are trying to communicate before you shut them down as a nuisance.

Maybe a bit harsh but +1. There is a much better way to handle this sitch, but without context you do seem a bit confrontational. Remember, most coaches just want to be heard.. usually a few conversational words can diffuse the situation. Just saying..

[TheOracle]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I'm glad coaches have ZERO input into our high school evaluations.

Not directly, but rest assured they have indirect input, particularly for post-season.

[justacoach]

Originally Posted by TheOracle

Not directly, but rest assured they have indirect input, particularly for post-season.

How do you have any idea how such things operate here in the Old Dominion?
I think you are improperly projecting from the Commonwealth of PA into the Commonwealth of VA. Do you reach that far in your games?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by TheOracle

Not directly, but rest assured they have indirect input, particularly for post-season.

Not even remotely in my area.....none at all.....zip, nada......

[Terrapins Fan]

Originally Posted by TheOracle

He's saying the coaches do not rate him well. There is a reason for that. Officials that are "unapproachable" never prosper, and that label is easy to get and hard to shake, fair or not. The #1 reason officials have moved down the ladder or been dropped from my rosters over the past 15 years is coaches feedback that they are unapproachable, and that is universally true at every level until you are an established D-1 official. Sometimes, coaches need to be dealt with bluntly, given technicals, and even be ejected, but when that happens, it is how we do that which makes the difference. Being approachable and professional in all we do matters. Cutting off a coach like that is generally not a great idea. This is a people business.

This is my 11th year. I have been doing Varsity games since year 3. I have been doing play off games since year 3 and I have done post season tournaments.

That coach was either a middle school coach or a freshman coach, he was constantly trying to tell me what I was doing wrong


" that's a reach"

"He walked"

"It's over the back"

I got tired of it.

We had a conversation and he was fine after that.

On the varsity level, I have conversations with coaches as needed but they are rare.

I had one the other night where from 60 feet away the coach knew it was a foul and I am 5 feet from the play.

I explained that there was no way he could see a foul from where he was, when I am 5 feet from the play and I didn't see a foul.

Coach said " that's the problem, you didn't see the foul"

How can you win? The player going to the basket clearly tried to avoid the contact to get his shot off and did.

As for my coaches rating, I believe that the problem is, many of our officials are very friendly with the coaches. I am not. I don't go to the bars after a game and I rarely ever see a coach in public. Many of our officials and coaches do more than 1 sport. I do not.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan

How can you win?

- Answer questions in 10 words or less and then get away from the coach. And there's nothing the matter with a coach having the last word as you're walking away as long as the last words aren't profane, derogatory, etc.
- don't initiate conversations unless you have information to pass
- warn once, not 3 times.
- follow up on all warning
- be approachable but distant at the same time

Works for me. Mileage may vary.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

- Answer questions in 10 words or less and then get away from the coach. And there's nothing the matter with a coach having the last word as you're walking away as long as the last words aren't profane, derogatory, etc.
- don't initiate conversations unless you have information to pass
- warn once, not 3 times.
- follow up on all warning
- be approachable but distant at the same time

Works for me. Mileage may vary.

+1

This part sounds paradoxical. Another way to think about it: be approachable without encouraging the approach.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by TheOracle

Not directly, but rest assured they have indirect input, particularly for post-season.

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Not even remotely in my area.....none at all.....zip, nada......

Same here. There is a absolutely no evaluation tool available for high school coaches for whom we officiate (I was going to say service but I know where that would have led ). Of coures come play-off time the assignor may take into account some personality differences in making assignments, but after the 1st round even that has to go out the window.

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Same here. There is a absolutely no evaluation tool available for high school coaches for whom we officiate (I was going to say service but I know where that would have led ). Of coures come play-off time the assignor may take into account some personality differences in making assignments, but after the 1st round even that has to go out the window.

Not so here. Coaches have to rate (Not really evaluate) every official in every varsity contest, no exceptions. They can be banned from postseason play if they don't rate their officials. These ratings factor into postseason assignments (sectionals/quarterfinals/championships). For district play, all officials that want to work in the postseason basically just sign up. The host schools all hold a "draft" to pick their officials for their district. I'm not sure how much input the coach of each team gets though.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Same here. There is a absolutely no evaluation tool available for high school coaches for whom we officiate (I was going to say service but I know where that would have led ). Of coures come play-off time the assignor may take into account some personality differences in making assignments, but after the 1st round even that has to go out the window.

Here's a typical...and true... story on that, Newz......

The convenor of one high school league we service ( ) asked me if their coaches could have input as to whom I assigned in their playoffs. I said "sure, get your coaches together and give me a list of people that you all agree you'd like to see." Note the key word was "agree". Well, I'm still waiting. And I knew I would be. The coaches couldn't agree on a list because of their individual likes, dislikes and biases. They all want that special official that will give them what they consider to be a fair share of the calls, which means that every close call has to go their way. One coach had a certain official rated #1; another coach didn't even have that official on his list. And they're all afraid that they'll get somebody who they didn't want but the other coaches did. That was the last I heard of that one.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan

I had one the other night where from 60 feet away the coach knew it was a foul and I am 5 feet from the play.

I explained that there was no way he could see a foul from where he was, when I am 5 feet from the play and I didn't see a foul.

Coach said " that's the problem, you didn't see the foul"

How can you win? The player going to the basket clearly tried to avoid the contact to get his shot off and did.

How about instead of saying this, you say this? That seems like a much more reasonable answer that would (possibly) satisfy the coach.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I'm glad coaches have ZERO input into our high school evaluations.

Same here. ZERO input on our assignments.

Originally Posted by TheOracle

Not directly, but rest assured they have indirect input, particularly for post-season.

With all due respect, bull$hit. You have no way of knowing how assignments, whether regular season or post season, are handled everywhere.

I can tell you for sure that they have no input whatsoever here. The assignor books conference tourneys and Sectionals before teams are even seeded. He also selects Regional and State crews and submits them to the state association. Further, local crews only work the first two rounds of the playoffs. Teams see crews from neutral associations for the last 4 rounds.

So while they may have input where you live, that doesn't mean it works that way everywhere.

[ga314ref]

Originally Posted by bigdog5142

Well, I pulled the trigger for the first time this season this week.

The thing that REALLY sucks is that I'll get a bad rating for that night. Coaches rank us here in MI. So...another one bites the dust.

So...warranted??? I don't call many T's, so I usually question them. I guess we all do. I don't question this as much, though. Felt solid. I just need to take my emotion out of the call. I'm really working on calling a T just like any other foul.

I hope your association requires you to make a report on Ts because if they're going to let coaches rate officials (no chance of any bias here), they need to let officials be on record with their side of the story.

[bigdog5142]

Originally Posted by ga314ref

I hope your association requires you to make a report on Ts because if they're going to let coaches rate officials (no chance of any bias here), they need to let officials be on record with their side of the story.

That sounds great! But alas, no, we do not report a single T...we do, however report ejections to the state (MHSAA - Michigan).

Long story short, the league that this guy was in, I'll never get varsity. Reference this thread: When is it too late to turnback a game ??????? for the entire story. I work with two other assignors that give me varsity games and know me and have worked with me.