What We've Got Here Is Failure To Communicate. (Cool Hand Luke) ...

[BillyMac]

We've had a few threads recently about correctable errors, noncorrectable errors, and mistakes, such as coaches requesting and beng granted an excess timeout that later turns out not to be excessive. And players who have been disqualified for five fouls, and it's later discovered that they really didn't have five fouls. All ugly situations. Well, here's another one that happened to a buddy in a recent junior varsity game.

Lead official calls an intentional foul on B1 who fouled A1 in the act of shooting. Ball does not go in. Lead properly signals the intentional foul at the spot of the foul, and reports it as such to the table.

Old trail does not see the intentional foul signal, and, as new lead, lines up players to rebound A1's two shots. New trail does not realize that there is a problem. A1's two shots are successful. Team B takes the last successful free throw out of bounds and successfully makes a throwin to a Team B player. At the next whistle, Team A coach asks the officials why they didn't get the ball back at the site of the intentional foul?

Any way to correct this? What if A1 missed the second shot, any way to correct? What if A1 wasn't in the act of shooting a missed the first half of a one and one, anyway to corect?

[Indianaref]

Maybe let 10.1.8 Comment guide you on this one?

[Adam]

The error here is failing to award the throwin to the proper team. Definitely no way to correct this once the throwin has been completed.

Once B's throwin pass is legally touched in bounds, it can no longer be corrected.

If one of the two FTs had been shot, you can correct by pulling everyone off the lane.
If he misses the 2nd and B earns the rebound, I think it's too late to correct, then, too.

Now, if the P had given a 1 and 1, and the first was missed with B getting the rebound, that gets tricky. Failure to give the FT is a correctable error, but the throwin is not. However, I'd say give him his FT with the lane cleared and give A the throwin based on 2.10.1A.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Indianaref

Maybe let 10.1.8 Comment guide you on this one?

10.1.8 is about a player from team A making a throwin following a goal by his own team. It's not relevant to BillyMac's play (unless I'm seriously misreading the OP).

[Indianaref]

According to a previous post by Camron Rust "Team B threw in a dead ball. The ball would have only become live had team A taken it OOB for the throwin."

Messy situation

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Indianaref

According to a previous post by Camron Rust "Team B threw in a dead ball. The ball would have only become live had team A taken it OOB for the throwin."

Not here. By allowing the players to line up, the ball becomes live once it's at B's disposal. Otherwise the same argument could be made to correct a mistaken AP throwin (given to A rather than B) after the fact.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Now, if the P had given a 1 and 1, and the first was missed with B getting the rebound, that gets tricky. Failure to give the FT is a correctable error, but the throwin is not. However, I'd say give him his FT with the lane cleared and give A the throwin based on 2.10.1A.

To extend the scenario here: New lead announces 1 and 1 and A misses the first attempt. A rebounds but turns it over to B. At this point new trail realizes the error and stops play.

We can correct the missed free throw, but will resume from the point of interruption (B's throw in) since there was a change of possession. Right?

[Indianaref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Not here. By allowing the players to line up, the ball becomes live once it's at B's disposal. Otherwise the same argument could be made to correct a mistaken AP throwin (given to A rather than B) after the fact.

You are right, 7.5.2 A Throw in by wrong team by mistake.

[Adam]

That's how I read it, yes.

[Indianaref]

Originally Posted by eastshire

to extend the scenario here: New lead announces 1 and 1 and a misses the first attempt. A rebounds but turns it over to b. At this point new trail realizes the error and stops play.

We can correct the missed free throw, but will resume from the point of interruption (b's throw in) since there was a change of possession. Right?

correctable errors
2.10.1 situation a

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Indianaref

You are right, 7.5.2 A Throw in by wrong team by mistake.

Or 6.4.1D. My book doesn't have 7.5.2A (odd).

[Indianaref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Or 6.4.1D. My book doesn't have 7.5.2A (odd).

6.4.1D addresses Arrow Mistake, 7.5.2A is the one

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Indianaref

6.4.1D addresses Arrow Mistake, 7.5.2A is the one

7.5.2A isn't in my case book, but I assume it uses the same logic as 6.4.1D, the mistake can be corrected up until the throwin is completed.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

My book doesn't have 7.5.2A (odd).

Looks like they took it out this year? That is kind of weird.

[jalons]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

We've had a few threads recently about correctable errors, noncorrectable errors, and mistakes, such as coaches requesting and beng granted an excess timeout that later turns out not to be excessive. And players who have been disqualified for five fouls, and it's later discovered that they really didn't have five fouls. All ugly situations. Well, here's another one that happened to a buddy in a recent junior varsity game.

Lead official calls an intentional foul on B1 who fouled A1 in the act of shooting. Ball does not go in. Lead properly signals the intentional foul at the spot of the foul, and reports it as such to the table.

Old trail does not see the intentional foul signal, and, as new lead, lines up players to rebound A1's two shots. New trail does not realize that there is a problem. A1's two shots are successful. Team B takes the last successful free throw out of bounds and successfully makes a throwin to a Team B player. At the next whistle, Team A coach asks the officials why they didn't get the ball back at the site of the intentional foul?

Any way to correct this? What if A1 missed the second shot, any way to correct? What if A1 wasn't in the act of shooting a missed the first half of a one and one, anyway to corect?

Situations such as intentional or technical fouls should be covered in our pregames. If I have one of these situations come up, I meet with one of my partners and explain what was called, how the free throws will be handled (who the shooter on the IF is, any eligible player on the TF), and how/where the following throw-in will be administered. Also, I will meet with one of my partners (if my other partner didn't beat me there) and get this information from him/her if I did not make the call. It only takes a few seconds on the court and keeps us out of many situations that only lead to trouble. Just a little something I picked up at camp one summer.