# of games
 

My friend was frustrated with the number of games he has gotten this year and it got us talking about the number of games we do over the four months of basketball (Nov, Dec, Jan, Feb)....last year I finished the season with 26 H.S. varsity games and this year at the half way point I am at 14.....curious to hear where others stand....maybe it'll make my friend feel better ;)

So many variables.....
 

You could have a wide swing here - area of country, number of schools, number of qualified officials, etc.

This was my first yr moving into a mostly V schedule, so my number of games went down a bit. My records reflect:

15 V*
12 JV/F
42 Rec and tourney/mostly weekend games

* I lost several games due to snow.

I expect to have more V games this yr. Also, as was stated in a previous thread, I could do more sub-V and Rec games if I desire, but I prefer to take the time off/let my body heal and not spend every day out late and away from home.

Our season started November 9th. I had about 30 games by the end of December and have 20 more so far in January. Probably 80% will be V & the rest JV & a couple MS. I work 2 assns and travel more. I also live in an area with few schools and about 8 officials, so many guys who do not want to travel turn back games.

2010
First 7 weeks: 25 V and 2 JV (11/15 - 12/31)
Week 8: 5 V and 1 JV
Week 9: 4 V
Total: 34 V and 3 JV games

2009
First 9 weeks: 36 V games

Usually don't get JV games but we have a couple of privates without a girls team this year, so I've had 3 BJV/BV doubleheaders.

I usually work around 50-55 varsity contests during the year.

Peace

My local chapter took a big hit in school districts moving to other chapters. I'm taking the year off for several reasons, but from what I'm hearing the schedules are about half of what they were last year -- at least varsity wise. I don't know if guys are making some up by working more subvarsity. Hopefully they are, to get the games covered and help out newer officials. I also worry about retention. For those folks that want to return, did they get enough games to make it worthwhile for them? My first year I worked something like 60 or 70 games and I wasn't satisfied. Now, only a few work more than half that.

Unhappy with your association? Changes by the state association? What caused the exodus?

My season didn't start until November 26 and I always have a work conference that takes me out of town the first week of December. I've worked 17 varsity HS games and 2 juco games since then.

I am scheduled for 47 varsity games and 4 juco games for the entire season. Last year I worked exactly 50 games, including the playoffs. That's enough for me.

We only work 1 game a night.

So far this season:

20 High School Games
26 Women's College Games
1 (and only) Womens JUCO game
4 Middle School Games

I can only dream. :(

I believe that there are several factors to consider here.
Off the top of my head here are some:
1. What is the availability and travel radius of the official?
2. Does the association work both boys and girls games?
3. Does the local area play girls at one site and boys at another or mix the games in the same gym?
4. Does the area use 2 or 3 officials for games?
5. Is this a large area with several games on certain nights and many games during a week or small area with relatively few games?
6. How many officials are there in the area?
7. What is the official's rating within his area compared to others?
8. What is the philosophy of the assignor? Spread the games around or work the top guys to death?

Given all of these differences from one place to another, I doubt that giving a raw game count would be helpful to anyone in particular.

I have no desire to work 5-6 nights a week. We had a split here locally and I'm actually happier now because it's a lot easier to gauge which days I'm needed to work. I now close out every Monday/Wednesday, days which we have very few games scheduled, to be home for my son who needs to some extra help with his school work. I know I'll work 3 nights (Tues/Fri/Sat) every week.

I live in SE WI and we have about 150-200 high Schools with an hours drive of my house. We do not have boys/girls varsity DH on a regular basis.

A lot of guys are doubling up in H.S. varsity if they can, right ?

Not sure what you mean. Only doubleheaders we get are JV/V at our Single A school. All of our AAA games have separate crews for GV and BV.

Nobody is working for both associations, so no doubling up that way if that's what you mean.

games
 

Boys Varisty: 9
Girls Varsity: 3
College Womens: 5

It would be great if we did. We could work both games with 3-person crews and the gyms would always be packed. When I lived in TN, we played the GV at 6:15PM and the BV right afterwards (usually jumping between 7:45PM and 8PM).

Of course back then (1995) we only got $60 for working both games 2-person (total). I'd do it today 3-person for $100 or so.

I haven't counted the # of games last year vs this year, but it must be fewer this year...my Decemeber 2009 pay was exactly 1 penny more than my December 2010 pay :(

I work in the same association and I think that 14 games so far given the way the games are assigned is about normal. One preseason week I had 4 games, but most weeks I average 2-3 a week... Since most games are Tuesdays and Fridays there are limited opportunities to do more than 2 per week...

Dont know who your friend is but my advice is that those who complain the loudest about their schedule have more issues in getting games. If there is truly an issue with schedule it may take an honest heart to heart talk with the chapter president and get an honest scoop.

Actually it is very helpful to myself. I realize there are many factors to take into account but amongst other things it satiates my curiosity.

In that case I'll be happy to provide mine for you.

November 2010
MS - 4
JC - 2
HS BV - 2
HS GV - 0
HS subV - 1

December 2010
JC - 2
HS BV - 17
HS GV - 3
HS subV - 6

Two month total = 37

I would love to do it for $100 or so. TSSAA sets the fees the schools pay for varsity contests. $80 for GV/BV double header. TN board of regents passed a $5 increase in the Summer, first increase in 7 years then took it back away the week before schools started.

You only get $80 for a varsity doubleheader? :eek: We make $110 for a varsity DH and $100 for a JV/V DH.

And to rub salt into the wound, no mileage pay. The association covers a large geographic area. I had a game a couple of weeks ago that was a 2 Hr and 20 Min. drive.

This is a simple case of the law of supply and demand. None of the officials is required to take any particular assignment -- assuming all are independent contractors as opposed to employees.

Therefore, the BoR can set the fee they will pay at anything they like. It doesn't mean that ANYONE has to take those games! If $80 is not reasonable, then officials can pass on the HS games and do something else. On the other hand, so long as officials are accepting the games, $80 is the going rate.

It takes two to create a contract.

The problem is with the state setting the rates and associations locking in agreements with the TSSAA and with the schools. Your association doesn't *have* to service that school 2+ hours away -- at some point someone decided to.

$80 for 2 games? Things haven't changed in Tennessee. I bet they pay more now for 1 varsity football game. A shame.

Kansas sucks for the fact that schools are limited to 20 games not counting postseason. All of mine are GV/BV doubleheaders and thus far I have worked 5 nights for a total of 10 games. Have 10 more or so nights scheduled so looking at 30 games when the season ends.

Contrast this to when I was in Arkansas/Memphis area: Arkansas small schools started BBall in October if they didn't have football. It was split JH/HS V doubleheaders, almost all three whistle, with girls on M/Th and boys on T/Fr. It was not unusual to do over 100 games in a season, not counting any weekend or wreck ball. I miss it.

I guess I look at it differently. I do this as a hobby and not a source of income. As long as my fees pays my expenses (always does plus some left over) I don't complain. I don't have a problem with what TSSAA pays - although MS is actually a better deal if you are strictly talking pay because you get $65 for a DH and usually the games are within 10-15 minutes of you house as opposed to a HS that you may have to travel a hour or more one way.

I figure when I get to the point where I don't think it is worth it, I will quit. But how many hobbies actually pay you to participate? ;) All my other hobbies seem to always be costing me lot of $$

By the way I average 4-6 games a week from the beginning of the season until the end of it so I work all I want to work.

Robby

This has been quite the interesting season for me so far...

November:

Jr High: 6
Soph: 1

December:

Jr High: 3
Frosh: 2
Soph: 1
JV: 3

Won't work my next game until Jan. 28th. I'll be surprised if I clear 30 games this year.

Have you ever heard of a "unilateral contract"? A unilateral contract is where one party has all the power. They are illegal in insurance and some other industries.

TSSAA requires referees belong to a local association, require the schools to use an association to supply referees, assign +/or approve the schools serviced by each association. TSSAA appoints the assigning officer and supervisor of each association.

Any referee who turns down a game that was assigned on an unblocked date in our association has 3 other assignments removed. So no, short of not refereeing High School at all there is no "two parties to a contract" freedom in TN.

In the past a significant portion of an association attempted to start a new association to advocate for better pay and mileage compensation. TSSAA simply refused to sanction their elected assignor and supervisor and reminded the schools that if they used referees from an unsanctioned association that they would have to forfeit their games.

Would I rather get paid $80 and get some exercise and enjoy being around the game? Yes I would. Is there any sibilance of "independent contract" or free market principle in the "unilateral" nature of TSSAA policies? NO.

This isn't anything close to a unilateral contract. Every contract comes with terms and conditions. If you don't accept those of TSSAA contracts, then don't accept or work the games.

I never understand why people think they have the right to work school contests without complying with the terms of the contract. A free market means that the TSSAA is free to require whatever it wants for its $80 games, and you're free to decline the bargain.

And 'sibilance' is a kind of hiss. You want 'semblance'. ;)

The policies in TN are, IMO, onerous. As an official you belong to an association (and I believe only one). They alone decide what games you work. The association I was in set all policies like the one where someone who works varsity games is not allowed to take games assigned by the association (and they assign all of them) at other levels.

When I was promoted to varsity ball there, I saw my number of dates drop from 4 a week to 2 a week and even when there were MS dates to fill I could not work them unless they got so desparate that they *had* to fill them. There was no freedom of movement for officials unless you moved to another association, which (of course) had its own problems.

And anyone that knows me knows I don't give a flip about the money. My point is that they pay officials more to work one football game ($85)than 2 varsity basketball games ($80).

Thanks for the correction of my Homonym error.

A free market means that each party has at least some influence on the terms of the agreement. The B of A is totally populated by School administrators. There is no representation of the referees, the "other" party. TSSAA by sanctioning both the referee associations and the validity of the contests enforce the will of only one party to the contracts.

My point to you is that as long as there are enough officials to take these games -- it does not matter WHY they take the games (hobby, short on cash, love the exercise, etc.) -- $80 will be the number.

At the point when enough officials decide to do MS games, indoor (outdoor) soccer games, etc., the rate will change. It has to change -- unless they want to go to 1-person crews. until then....well, $80 may not seem so bad.

You're welcome. ;)

No, it means the absence of force and fraud.

Given what Rich posted, I agree that the situation sounds far from ideal. It's too bad you can't have elections in the association to get better leadership, go on strike, or otherwise act in concert with fellow officials to better the situation.

Oh wait: you can!

The attempt to "act in concert" with other officials was attempted in the recent past by a neighboring association. That was the one where TSSAA told them they would not be sanctioned and told the schools using them would result in forfeited games.

The only option would be a strike action. Referees I have come in contact with in general are very "independent" in nature. I foresee no group strike action out of group of people who would allow their elected representation to be disbanded and their money taken. We now have "taxation without representation" paying $85 per year membership fee, $1 per assignment and $175 mandatory TSSAA "camp" every 3 years.

You could, except the TSSAA would probably reallocate those schools to a different association and decertify the group.

Those officials who have never worked in another system -- well, it's better, certainly. You get to work with multiple assignors and get to be responsible for filling your own schedule. One person's opinion of your work doesn't greatly affect your schedule or your advancement.

Strike action? I tried to organize the officials in an adult baseball league where the umpires were underpaid and overabused. There were just enough people who would crawl over our corpses to take the games that such an action wasn't possible.

Same with anything in this case -- those officials who have been waiting for 5-6 years to break into the varsity ranks would be thrilled to see those spots open up. Look at the handshake nonsense in Massachusetts -- those games got filled, too.

Sounds like options but reality intrudes. MS games are also assigned by the approved associations. TSSAA also sanctions high school Soccer. I am a soccer referee also. The other Winter sports provide very little opportunity to break a sweat while refereeing. Wrestling or Bowling anyone. ;)

I am guessing they don't sanction club soccer. My point is that as long as enough folks are willing to wear a black and white striped shirt and meet the requirements AND are willing to do the games for $80, that is what you will get. I am guessing that soccer referees are more scarce (they certainly are in Ohio). Therefore, even if 10% of the soccer referees decided to do "something/anything" else, then there would be a shortage. With a shortage comes the options of either A) paying more or B) playing games with a less-than-ideal number of officials.

If there are tons of officials relative to the number of games, I would expect the pay to be low. If there are relatively few officials compared to the number of openings, I would expect pay to be higher.

While we may referee largely for fun and fitness, for 95+% of us, the pay is one reason why we do it. Otherwise, you would tell the schools to keep their check. Not many officials do that now, do they? Since money is at least a minor consideration, the law of supply and demand will hold in the long run.

We always have options -- may be bowling, but we do have options.

Even if they find officials to work the games, that is different than getting who you want. When I have seen prices change is when the "right officials" decline working any of those games and somehow the fee goes up or changes to everyone's liking. Let's face it, not everyone is judged on the same level and if you get first year guys only working and no veterans things sometimes will change.

Peace

By the end of the basketball season I will have done a little over 100 games.
15 JV games.
27 Adult League games.
The rest are Middle School with a lot games coming during weekend tournaments.

Too many veterans will take whatever is given them. I had one guy tell me he thought we made "enough money" when we got $60 for a 9-inning adult game and that we were "just causing trouble." Too many of these types and no real organized action is possible.

We've got one school where I work that has a real smart AD. He raises the fees he pays every year. It may only be $1.00 - $2.50/year but he is not paying far and above anyone else in the area. (this is for sub-varsity games - the conference sets fees for varsity) Other schools have not raised fees for so long that they have had or will have to raise by $15 -$20 just to compete. He's been doing it for about 15 years. I can make as much for a JV game there as most places pay for varsity.

It's Like Stealing ...
 

Warning: To those of you who do not believe that you are getting paid enough. Stop reading this post right now. Move on to another thread.

Thursday is a slow basketball night in Connecticut, so I don't have a high school game tonight. Instead I have a Catholic middle school "varsity" (eighth graders) game. One game. Boys. Site is a ten minute drive from home. No observation for evaluation before, or after, the game. Same partner I worked with last week, so no pregame. I'm required to show up only ten minutes before tipoff. No introductions. No National Anthem. Seven minute periods. Five minute halftime. "Relaxed" mechanics (switch when convienent). Complimentary food, and drink, from concession stand. I'll leave home around 5:40 p.m., and be home by 7:15 p.m., with $54.00 cash in my pocket.

Priceless.

Note to IRS agents who may monitor this website: Keep in mind that in real life, I'm just a sweet transvestite from Transexual, Transylvania. Just try to find me.

Wow. $54 for a middle school game. In our area only get $20-$25/game. Depending on school. $45-$50 for JV and Frosh. Don't know what Varsity officials get but I do soccer and get $55-$65/game. Depending on the conference.

Land Of Steady Habits ...
 

High school varsity: $88.26
All subvarsity (junior varsity, freshman, middle school): $57.25
Automatic raise every year equal to average teacher raise in the State.
No varsity doubleheaders.
A few subvarsity doubleheaders.
A few weekday afternoon middle school, or freshman games, with one official: 150% fee.
No mileage (most distant games about 50 miles one way).
Two hour scrimmage: $100.00 split between two, or three, officials.
7% assignment fee to commissioner at end of season.

Of course, but just because you are a veteran does not mean you are a preferred veteran or someone that has other options. I know a lot of veterans that will not do many games or go many places because the pay is not worth it to them.

Peace

Eat Your Hearts Out Guys ...
 

Girls/Boys Doubleheader: $82.00 Cash
Sub"varsity" Weekend Games (Six Minute Periods): $30.00 Per Game Check (Usually Tripleheaders, or Quadrupleheaders)

I can hear you all saying, "There's gotta be a catch". Not really. Must show up in full high school (sans jacket) uniform (no shorts, no sweatpants, no sneakers, no jewelry). No showers available. Must enforce every "fashion police" rule in the book, or we don't get paid.

So, you could, theoretically, send your partner off the court for that.