Why we avoid conflicts of interest
 

Tonight I had the championship of a holiday tournament, 3-person girls.

The dates on this tourney changed and instead of having a first round game (4 teams, 2 nights) we ended up with the championship.

My regular 3-person crew has a guy who teaches at one of the high schools. After the games were played last night, he noticed that he would end up working the school where he teaches, so he arranged a switch into the consolation game and I get one of those officials.

Fast forward to the second half. That school is getting waxed. I call a shooting foul on one of their players at the other end of the floor from their bench. I report and I hear the coach going on and on about this one call in a 20-point game.

I decide I need to deal with this, so I step into the backcourt where I'm greeted with, "that's a terrible call - I need your address so I can send you a tape so you'll see how horrible that was."

I'm kinder and gentler, so I walked away from him. He kept going, using words like terrible and brutal. I'm not a fan of the stop sign, but I used one here, figuring maybe he'll see that on film. He continued, I whacked.

I should've whacked him after the address remark. I'm getting soft.

Glad the school's teacher wasn't on the game, although I missed working with him.

3 years ago, I called 20 "T's"

I got talked to about it.

Last year 7 "T's"

This year Zero so far...maybe I am getting kinder too....not a chance....just a matter of time.

It's part of the job. They know it.

How does this show "why we avoid conflicts of interest?"

Perhaps if the official who teaches at the school was in the game, the coach would have been less inclined to take his frustration out on the officials. And I'm not saying the guy should have worked the game. I think he did the right thing.

But just don't see how this really speaks to avoiding conflicts of interest.

I came very close to ejecting him a few minutes later.

His player had the ball and started a drive. Defender stuck a knee out and the dribbler went right over it, slowing her almost to a stop. I call the block.

He started in with me, arguing the foul on the other team. Said I took away the drive. Trust me, I didn't. She didn't have the talent to drive, plus she was displaced pretty severely. This was personal. If either of the other two had whistled it, he wouldn't have said a word. I told him he really didn't want to pick up another technical.

On a dead ball he made it a point to tell a partner it was only his third T in 14 years. Good for him. I'm guessing he's deserved more.

I just don't think it would be good for my partner or the coach if he was on the game. What if my partner would had to assess the second T at some point? It's just a situation officials shouldn't be in.

I had my first "I'll send you the tape" comment a couple weeks ago in a girls tournament game. I was L on a fast break and the girl traveled after a jump stop. After I blow the whistle and give the signal, he starts in, so I briefly explain to him why I called the violation. He says "I'll send you the tape". He didn't say anything else, so I ignored him. I wanted to reply with "No, I don't want to re-live this garbage...one time is enough" or "Save your postage".

This was the same team whose AC later in the game started saying "Wow!....wow!" after I called a hand check on one of their players. I turned around and addressed it, which shut him up (Even though he said he "Wasn't talking to me"). There was a timeout shortly after this. The AC walks out of the huddle and starts to come toward my partner and I and said he wanted to apologize, but we sent him back promptly. I turned to my partner and asked him what the AC was wanting to apologize for if he wasn't talking to me in the first place...

I have worked some lower level games at the school where I teach. This usually has happened as a last second or emergent situation. AD will come into classroom and see if I was open that night. However - I would NEVER consider a varsity contest with the school I work at. Nothing good could come of it.

I was once assigned a tournament game with my school even after I had listed that school as one I should not work with the state. I called them and thanked them for the assignment but told them I would not work the game and the reason why. After they yelled at me for "not putting that on my form" they told me I would have to just decline the game. I did. 20 minutes later they called back, admitted their error, not mine, and reassigned me to a different site. They thanked me for my "professional integrity".

Good job to you and your partners for making this switch!!

Why are you not a fan of the "STOP SIGN"? Just wondering.

By the way, has anyone ever got a tape from a catch after he/she says they are going to send you one?

Because unless it's a recognized sign in your particular area, it doesn't work.

I you give a coach a stop sign and say "this is you warning!" How is that not universal?

I've found that it has more potential to inflame than actually stop the behavior I want stopped. Last night I knew that it was either going to stop the behavior or lead to a T. The coach chose door number 2.

Truth is, I should've whacked him earlier. My 2 regular partners (one on the game, one not because of the conflict) both said I gave him more rope than they would've. Kinder and gentler isn't always the right response, I guess.

The one thing I'm always reminded of is that the people side of this bidness is the hardest thing we deal with.

I don't think I had 2 coach technicals all last season and I've had 2 now before January 1. C'est la vie.

It's not a universal practice all over the country. I think the meaning of it is crystal clear, but it takes quite a bit for me to get to the point where I draw a visible line on the court and essentially (in some coaches' minds) dare them to step over it.

And that's probably why I don't like it. I don't like when coaches show me up and there's a part of me that thinks that me putting my hand up for the coach (and everyone else) to see puts a coach into a corner, and there's nothing more dangerous than a cornered rat. :D

Disagree completely. It serves it's function if it's used properly. It's a non-verbal warning, and just like a verbal warning you have to follow up if you want it to be effective.

I view it as a tool to let the coach know we have had enough and they will choose to go down one of two roads. Road one: try to correct their behavior and move on. Road two: leads straight to Whackland! It is their choice.

Putting up a stop sign and saying "that's enough" are the exact same thing imo. The intent of both should be to put a coach in a corner. If the coach wants to ignore either that verbal or non-verbal final warning, he does so at his own risk. And it's also now on me if I fail to follow up on that "final" warning if challenged.

JMO

I tend to agree here. I don't have nearly as much experience as a lot of you, but this logic makes sense to me. It gives a coach a choice, and they can't say we didn't warn them. I've used it with success before, but I've also T'd after using it.

Poop happens. A few years back, I hadn't had to call a flagrant T in over five years, and then had three within two weeks (all separate incidents)....and haven't had one since (probably just jinxed myself :eek:).

Biggest advantage I can see to the "stop sign" is that the game video will show that the coach was clearly warned. Best if we can defuse it before it gets to that point, but sometimes, in spite of our best efforts, they don't give us a lot of choice. As JR said, when it gets to that point we have to step up and say "that's enough".

Oh, I know. But I can say, "That's enough" in a way where only the coach and I know I've said it. Sometimes the reaction, IMO, can be completely different. Sometimes it's important to let everyone else know you've heard and acknowledged what's been said and that you aren't going to continue to listen to it. That's how I felt last night. This was, truly, over one call on a shooting foul in a 20-point game. It still amazes me that he chose that point to find a scapegoat for his frustration. Seriously, they hit a 3 on their first possession and didn't score again until there was 3 minutes left in the second quarter.

This is only the second time I've worked a game involving this coach, and he's probably experienced a lot of officials whose motto is "Stop it or I'll tell you to stop it again." He did tell one of my partners that he had only received 3 technicals in 14 years.

A piece of advice. You considered it success when the T wasn't issued. That implies that you consider it failure when the coach runs through the sign. It's not failure -- it's the coach's choice. Just cause I like to use other tools in the bag before I pull out the stop sign (it's the last possible step before a T, IMO) does not mean it's a failure on the part of the officials if the coach runs through it.

A technical foul is not failure. Those that tell you they haven't called one in 20 years are likely spineless officials who've ignored their responsibilities. Coaches are human beings and one thing that's true is that you don't work 50+ games a season without at least a few coaches crossing the line. Enforce and move on. Do like I do and try to figure out if there was a better way to deal with the situation. My main problem with last night is that I felt I gave way too much rope -- had I warned earlier, maybe the coach would've gotten the message. Maybe not. Still thinking about that one.

I measure success on how many times it's actually worked in quieting the coach without a T. Verbal warnings work often for me; I've never had the stop sign work. It's led to a T every time I've used it.

I'm not saying others shouldn't use it; it works for some and in some areas it's actually expected. But like Rich (and others), I'm not a fan.

I think it's overly dismissive and unnecessarily inflammatory.

Note in response to Rich's post, the term "success" as I use it doesn't apply to me so much as the tactic.

Thanks for the advice. That's how I see it. You put it into words better than I did.

In NCAAW we are instructed to give a STOP SIGN and verbally say that “You have been warned.” If you don't give a verbal it is not considered a warning. We are instructed to "try" to give a warning before a technical is given.

And for the record, I hate the idea of doing it "for the tape," as if your assigner won't trust your word but needs the tape to back you up.

Are you sure that isn't the coach's fault and not the stop sign's fault?

There's no real real difference between a verbal final warning and a visual final warning imo. In both cases, we can't control what happens next. And in both cases we simply react to what happens next.

No, I'm not sure, but I know it hasn't worked for me. It's very possible I haven't used it correctly; but I've just had far greater success with my words.

Out of curiosity, I asked my dad how he would take it and his first thought was "that the official has had enough and I shouldn't push it any further." He's not a coach or official, but I thought it was interesting.

Two Out Of Three Ain't Bad ...
 

Some people are visual learners. Some people are auditory learners. Some people are kinesthetic learners. Unfortunately, I can't legally punch the coach in the mouth.

Rich -

You are right on brother !!!!! I hate to keep using "NBA Philosophies" with regard to NHFS / NCAA, but Scott Foster has told a bunch of us to put our hands down by our hips, more along the lines of an "easy coach".

Giving the stop sign (when two adults are involved) is absurd. We wouldn't want it and why should we treat another adult like a child.

Just think that too many of us think because we put on the stripes, it gives us
unlimited authority whenever we choose.......

When did taking a non-threatening posture when dealing with players or coaches become a freaking NBA philosophy? Officials at all levels have been using various forms of that philosophy...folded arms, etc when listening or answering a question....for many, many years....before Scott Foster was born.

And btw, our "unlimited authority" is usually limited by the people we report to. They won't put up with any loose cannons going off. And conversely I also think that far too many of us are afraid to use that supposedly "unlimited authority" to keep their games under control. They're looking for any reason not to call a technical foul. And by far the most used reason by them is the good ol' "it's good game management" excuse.

JMO

Putting the stripes on doesn't give us unlimited authority. It does, however, give us explicitly defined authority which includes penalizing unsporting behavior by a coach. The stop sign and verbal warnings are appropriate tools of that authority. Showing the stop sign is not treating a coach like a child, it's treating him as one who must submit to your authority on his conduct, which he is.

That said, I agree that the stop sign can be inflammatory as it publicly puts the coach into a corner. The stop sign is a hammer but the problem isn't always a nail.

I'm on a roll. We had 3 technicals last night -- one for each of us. 2 of them came during a scuffle after a foul.

Naw, you're just dealing with what comes up that you have to deal with. It comes with the job.

You know that.

And you know you'll continue doing that too without analyzing it to death.

A Fundraiser?
 

I wonder how officiating one of my wife's games would work out!!

Sweet! nice to be the one in charge for a change! :D

Tape's not the only reason
 

I like the stop sign and we use it my area of Georgia. Maybe that's why I like it because I've been instructed to use it. It does work, but that depends on your definition of "work". If you believe it should prevent a T, that's not what it is there for. The purpose is to let not only the coach, but everyone else, including your partners, that the coach has been warned. Yes, it will show up on the tape and I like that. It's not about your assignor not trusting you. But the coach may very well say..."I was never warned". Well, you now have proof to show him that he was. Not to prove it to your assignor but to refute what the coach just said. Someone else said that he warns the coach without the stop sign verbally so just he and the coach knows about it. I think that's a bad idea. Warn him/her so that everyone knows you did. You're not showing him up. Your just taking care of business. Sure you can warn the coach and then at a dead ball tell your partners you've warned the coach. However, I believe it is much more efficient if you pre-game the stop sign and say that once it has been given by one it has been given by all. The next time the coach is out of line, it's T time.

"The tape" isn't for your assignor to believe you, it's for your assignor to use as evidence that you handled things properly when defending you or your actions to the coach, AD, or conference commissioner.

Coaches also have their version of what transpired in a particular situation and they expect their ADs to trust their word as much as we expect our assignors to trust ours.

Fair enough, and I'd be more inclined to go along if a warning was required. Virtually every assigner I've had would respond very quickly to the "he didn't give me a warning" defense: "He's not required to."

And if the coach is inclined to lie about it, he's just as inclined to swear at you quietly and then deny it anyway.

True about warnings. My statement was more in general about "the tape". Even though I do have at least one supervisor who prefers we give a warning when possible.

I really don't mind giving warnings, but I prefer doing it quietly if possible. Odds are better that the behavior will stop without a T that way. OTOH, I do understand your point about the tape, I hadn't really thought about it in terms of the battle between the assigner/supervisor and the AD.

I disagree that a public warning isn't showing up a coach. I think sometimes it needs to be done that way, and sometimes it doesn't. The fact is come coaches need to be shown up, and that's what they're doing to us anyway so I'm not all that sympathetic in those situations.

But when we're doing the post-mortem and figuring out how we might have walked a coach away from the ledge, I think it's worth considering whether a public reprimand (stop sign or loud warning that the Sunday School teacher in the concession stand can hear clearly) might have inflamed things. Like all "tools," it won't work in all situations. Maybe my problem is I haven't used the stop-sign in the right situations (except once when I used it with a player who was whining.)

"You ejected me from the game. I'm ejecting you from the bedroom. We're even."

There is a reason the XBOX and big screen are out by the sofa!

Actually, I have always thought it would be..
"Call the foul"
"Well if your player would have done what you told them to I would"
"Why, you never do"

...and I could go on and on. It would be sort of funny though. I have worked 2 games over the summer but those don't have the same intensity LOL

You could throw in some "You never hear what I'm saying" comments and "How many times do I have to ask you" comments as well. And then you use the "silence can't be quoted" defense. And on and on it goes.

Don't tell me you're buying that one. I whacked a coach a few years ago and he tells me it is his first T in 10 years. I talked to another crew I know well and the whacked him a few weeks earlier.

I told another official (who teaches at the same school) that one and he didn't stop laughing for about five minutes.

I didn't buy it. People have sporadic and selective memories. I'm sure I do, too. For example, I can't remember any real details about my first 5 seasons officiating basketball. Of course, that was 20 years ago and I've probably forgotten more since then than I knew during my first five seasons.

I think this is common for many officials, I was one. I probably assessed too many early on, but as I grew to understand the job better, I don't assess as many. Also, I'm sure you're a better official than 3 years ago. You probably don't give them as much to whine about. The last component could be that you are now a familiar face to some of the coaches. You have built a bit of a relationship with them over the last few years.

Life would be much easier if people treated a technical foul as something that isn't all that special. Of course, state associations that demand a report on every technical foul where a coach loses the box don't make it any easier to get that message across.

Coach steps over the line, coach gets whacked, we *all* move on. That's how it *should* be. Should technicals be rare? Yes. Should they be non-existent and treated as nuclear warheads being detonated? NO.

Couldn't agree more. It's just another foul. I think we all put ourselves and fellow officials in a bad spot when we don't address sportsmanship when warranted. Here in Iowa we have a adaptation to the coach's box and I'm NOT a fan. They can only stand during dead clock periods and only in front of their seat. It takes away opportunities for the coaches to coach their players and us to communicate in appropriate ways with coaches. In my opinion, this rule came about because too many officials were letting coaches be demonstrative and out of line.

Interesting. If you're right, it was only happening on the girls side, because the rule as you state is more lenient than it was for boys when I was there. Girls had the coaching box, boys didn't. They have the same rule now, right?

"Well that's a coincidence. For all you know, it's the first one I've given in 20."
--The Book of Things We'd Like to Say

Sure, get me going on having both a boy's association and a girl's union.:D The two governing bodies are trying to get closer to the same page. We are down to only a couple of different adaptations for the girls' game unlike when you were around these parts. The coach's rule was somewhat of a compromise between the two. I think the boy's coaches were sat down years before for similar actions. Personally, I'd rather have them up so we can communicate and then seatbelt them when they are out of line, but that decision is above my pay grade so to speak.

I'm curious. What are the remaining differences?

Between boys and girls?

Girls have more held balls. :p

Man, that's opening a can of worms. :D

2010-11 Iowa Adaptations for Girls’ Basketball

Adaptation #1 Home uniforms shall be white in color and shall have even numbers. Away uniforms shall be a color other than white and shall have odd numbers. (Required for varsity only)

Adaptation #2 In addition to the numbers allowed by National Federation rule, the numbers 01, 02, 03, 04, and 05 are legal. The numbers 0 and 00 are considered as the even number alternative to 1 and 01. A team shall not use 0 and 00 etc., in the same game. Beginning in 2012-13, the NF rule will be followed making these numbers illegal.

Adaptation #3 Wristbands and Headwear - We will be adhering to Rules 3-5-3 and 3-6 regarding wristbands and headwear with the following exceptions. Anything worn in the hair (including headbands) must be soft and unadorned but may be any color or multi-colored and do not have to match for all teammates. Bobby pins and unadorned flat clips, no longer than two inches, will also be allowed. Wristbands may be any color or multi-colored and do not have to match for all teammates, but must be moisture-absorbing material. Lance Armstrong bracelets, rubber bands, etc., are still illegal as they are not moisture-absorbing.

Misty Water Colored Memories Of The Way We Were ...
 

Adaptation #4: Only five players on each team.

That is the single greatest post I have ever seen on this site. That is taking care of the game, and illustrates brains controlling the "stones".

I am amazed......amazed, I tell ya......that BillyMac hasn't posted pictures yet. :D

I will go you one better.....

I whacked a coach in a boys varsity game, I get the "That's my first T in 4 years" line...Gee, Coach, I guess you forgot the one I gave you three weeks ago at the XXXX tournament!

Softball ???
 

Too easy. rockchalk jhawk teed it up for me. I'd rather play hardball. More of a challenge.

Stoopid Band Directors ...
 

I had to speak to a band director about when to legally play, and not play, during the game. He was playing on all clock stopped throwins. He told me that that was the first time he ever heard of such a rule during the regular season. I told him that I worked one of his games last season and my partner had had talked to him about the same issue. He was dumbfounded.

+1

...I swear JR, I had not read this post before I posted earlier today about using the STOP sign...I think I even used the word effect.(Great minds think alike?)

I know, I know, Shut Up!:D

Hey Rich, I'm trying to figure who you are working with these days, but can't figure who the teacher would be. Anyway, the T's we end up regretting are the ones we don't issue. I've never regretted a T!

Roger