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-   -   Two Players on the Floor (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/60202-two-players-floor.html)

lmeadski Mon Dec 20, 2010 09:30am

Two Players on the Floor
 
This happened to us twice in a BV game this past weekend. On a loose ball, both A1 and B1 arrive at the ball at the same time. Both make an attempt for the ball and collide, falling to the floor like sacks of potatoes. The second time, A2 and B2 were going for a loose ball which had been deflected into the air. As they reach for the ball, their wrists wrap around each others, laying the kids out and having them drop to the floor, another sack of potatoes. In both situations, the players were playing the ball, arrived simultaneously, and did not play each other. Both times, we had no calls. Coaches rode us (how can you not call something??!!), even our assignor thought you have to at least pick one for a foul. Seeing both plays quite well, I could not imagine calling on one - it had to be a double foul or no call, our crew opted for no call. How do you all handle these loose ball situations?

Adam Mon Dec 20, 2010 09:43am

I go with a no-call. Was your assigner there? Did he/she see the plays in question from your angle?

A partner told me of the same critique he got from varsity officials last year. He had a no-call situation where two players were on the floor, and they told him he should really have a foul on that play.

He stayed to watch their varsity game, and they had the same thing happen in their game; with a no-call. He stayed til half-time to ask about it, and they all had a good laugh.

It's easier to critique someone for a no-call on this play than it is to pick a player and call a foul. If your assigner still insists you have something; a double might be the best option since it really doesn't penalize one team over the other.

Jurassic Referee Mon Dec 20, 2010 09:50am

Quote:

Originally Posted by lmeadski (Post 708724)
This happened to us twice in a BV game this past weekend. On a loose ball, both A1 and B1 arrive at the ball at the same time. Both make an attempt for the ball and collide, falling to the floor like sacks of potatoes. The second time, A2 and B2 were going for a loose ball which had been deflected into the air. As they reach for the ball, their wrists wrap around each others, laying the kids out and having them drop to th floor, another sack of potatoes. In both situations, the players were playing the ball, arrived simultaneously, and did not play each other. Both times, we had no calls. Coaches road us (how can you not call something), even our assignor thought you have to at least pick one for a foul. Seeing both plays quite well, I could not imaging calling on one - it had to be a double foul or no call, our crew opted for no call. How do you all handle these loose ball situations?

I follow the rules. Specifically NFHS rule 4-27-2&3 in the situation described above. No advantage gained = no foul called, no matter how severe the contact. It's that simple. You had it right imo and the rules back you up completely..

Stoopid monkey coaches and assignor.

BktBallRef Mon Dec 20, 2010 09:57am

Had the same play earlier this season. One girl was knocked unconscious. Did we call a foul? No.

RobbyinTN Mon Dec 20, 2010 10:20am

If they were going after a loose ball, no foul. If they were going after each other - different scenario.

Adam Mon Dec 20, 2010 10:25am

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobbyinTN (Post 708744)
If they were going after a loose ball, no foul. If they were going after each other - different scenario.

It doesn't even have to be a loose ball. Could be a pass.

RobbyinTN Mon Dec 20, 2010 10:28am

But in the OP, they were both loose balls scenarios - thus why I stated it the way I did.

26 Year Gap Mon Dec 20, 2010 10:34am

And we segue into...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RobbyinTN (Post 708749)
But in the OP, they were both loose balls scenarios - thus why I stated it the way I did.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/141...S9BTQXC7CC3KSZ
As a fan of the original ABA, I found this to be a great read. The Marvin Barnes time machine quote is worth the price of the book.
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51GlG-zFhWL.jpg

just another ref Mon Dec 20, 2010 11:55am

Quote:

Originally Posted by lmeadski (Post 708724)
.... even our assignor thought you have to at least pick one for a foul.

In any context, this is not great advice.

Amesman Mon Dec 20, 2010 01:31pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap (Post 708751)
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/141...S9BTQXC7CC3KSZ
As a fan of the original ABA, I found this to be a great read. The Marvin Barnes time machine quote is worth the price of the book.
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51GlG-zFhWL.jpg

One of the most unique reads you'll ever have -- if only for the way Terry and his publishers organize and present it. Can't recall another book like it, though it's been a few years since I read it.

BktBallRef Mon Dec 20, 2010 01:41pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 708748)
It doesn't even have to be a loose ball. Could be a pass.

Isn't a pass a loose ball? http://www.runemasterstudios.com/gra...ages/santa.gif

Adam Mon Dec 20, 2010 02:08pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BktBallRef (Post 708785)

Not in my book. :D

bainsey Mon Dec 20, 2010 02:33pm

Okay, now ONE player on the floor...
 
A-1 is on the floor, with a loose ball within his reach. B-2 dives over A-1 and while his hands are right over the ball, his chest/torso land on top of A-1.

I had a foul. Coach played the "he was going for the ball" card. I'm certainly going to give some leniancy if you're playing the ball, but not if you use your opponent as a landing strip. Besides, I believe someone here established that, crazy as it may sound, A-1 is entitled to that spot on the floor.

Thoughts?

26 Year Gap Mon Dec 20, 2010 02:43pm

Easy foul call. Aren't a large percentage of fouls results of someone 'going for the ball'?

Back In The Saddle Mon Dec 20, 2010 02:46pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bainsey (Post 708790)
A-1 is on the floor, with a loose ball within his reach. B-2 dives over A-1 and while his hands are right over the ball, his chest/torso land on top of A-1.

I had a foul. Coach played the "he was going for the ball" card. I'm certainly going to give some leniancy if you're playing the ball, but not if you use your opponent as a landing strip. Besides, I believe someone here established that, crazy as it may sound, A-1 is entitled to that spot on the floor.

Thoughts?

Thoughts: "He was going for the ball" is in The Coaches Handbook of Things to Say When You Don't Know What to Say. It's right between "That's gotta be something" and "How can you not call that?"

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Mon Dec 20, 2010 03:07pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee (Post 708728)
Stoopid monkey


JR:

I would have never believed that you were a Robot Chicken fan.

MTD, Sr.

just another ref Mon Dec 20, 2010 03:17pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bainsey (Post 708790)

Coach played the "he was going for the ball" card.

I see that he was, Coach. That's why the foul wasn't intentional.


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