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stiffler3492 Sun Dec 19, 2010 04:22pm

DQ Procedure
 
So I've had a few disqualifications in my recent games, and I want to get the procedure right.

Tweet! Foul on White 2-4, 2 shots.

Buzzer! Scorer tells me that that's 5 fouls on white 24.

What happens next???

co2ice Sun Dec 19, 2010 04:30pm

Notify head coach, then notify player. Then have the timer give you 20 seconds on the clock.

CDurham Sun Dec 19, 2010 04:30pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by stiffler3492 (Post 708595)
So I've had a few disqualifications in my recent games, and I want to get the procedure right.

Tweet! Foul on White 2-4, 2 shots.

Buzzer! Scorer tells me that that's 5 fouls on white 24.

What happens next???

Get them out

stiffler3492 Sun Dec 19, 2010 04:31pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by co2ice (Post 708596)
Notify head coach, then notify player. Then have the timer give you 20 seconds on the clock.

Ok. Is the other team allowed to huddle by the bench during these 20 seconds?

Adam Sun Dec 19, 2010 04:32pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by stiffler3492 (Post 708598)
Ok. Is the other team allowed to huddle by the bench during these 20 seconds?

Why wouldn't they be?

grunewar Sun Dec 19, 2010 04:34pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by co2ice (Post 708596)
Notify head coach, then notify player. Then have the timer give you 20 seconds on the clock.

Also, don't forget to tell your partner(s). It's important that the entire crew know this player is gone and can't come back in.

MNBlue Sun Dec 19, 2010 04:49pm

Does anyone have the non-calling official inform the coach of the 5th foul on #24?

mbyron Sun Dec 19, 2010 05:07pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by co2ice (Post 708596)
Notify head coach, then notify player. Then have the timer give you 20 seconds on the clock.

1. Notify partners
2. Notify head coach
3. Start clock
4. If needed, notify player

mbyron Sun Dec 19, 2010 05:09pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by MNBlue (Post 708601)
Does anyone have the non-calling official inform the coach of the 5th foul on #24?

Why would you?

Scrapper1 Sun Dec 19, 2010 05:37pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by stiffler3492 (Post 708598)
Ok. Is the other team allowed to huddle by the bench during these 20 seconds?
Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 708599)
Why wouldn't they be?


Because it's not a time-out. So the players may huddle with the head coach if they wish, but technically no one else is allowed to be standing.

Judtech Sun Dec 19, 2010 05:54pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by MNBlue (Post 708601)
Does anyone have the non-calling official inform the coach of the 5th foul on #24?

Our HS assignors instruct us to do so. To be honest, I usually play the "Who Is Closer" game. More often than not it is the calling official.

Adam Sun Dec 19, 2010 05:59pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scrapper1 (Post 708604)
Because it's not a time-out. So the players may huddle with the head coach if they wish, but technically no one else is allowed to be standing.

Good point, I was assuming the question was regarding the players on the court and not the bench.

Jurassic Referee Sun Dec 19, 2010 06:09pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scrapper1 (Post 708604)
Because it's not a time-out. So the players may huddle with the head coach if they wish, but technically no one else is allowed to be standing.

Do you still allow the coach the 20 second replacement period if he has no replacements available on the bench? :confused:

BktBallRef Sun Dec 19, 2010 06:11pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbyron (Post 708603)
Why would you?

Because in 2-man, the NFHS Officials Manual requires the non-calling official to notify the coach and the player.

Adam Sun Dec 19, 2010 06:12pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee (Post 708613)
Do you still allow the coach the 20 second replacement period if he has no replacements available on the bench? :confused:

http://www.1tell2.com/images/obamanomics/horshack.jpg

Ooh, ooh, I know.

zm1283 Sun Dec 19, 2010 06:13pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbyron (Post 708602)
1. Notify partners
2. Notify head coach
3. Start clock
4. If needed, notify player

+1

We usually switch to have the non-calling official notify the HC and start the clock, etc.

Jurassic Referee Sun Dec 19, 2010 06:19pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 708615)
Ooh, ooh, I know.

Scrappy does too. Sooooooo.......

Shut up. :D

fullor30 Sun Dec 19, 2010 06:20pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 708615)

Looks like my partner from a week ago. For every chop, his arm was this high and against his head, very comical.

bob jenkins Sun Dec 19, 2010 06:46pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by co2ice (Post 708596)
Notify head coach, then notify player. Then have the timer give you 20 seconds on the clock.

NOtify your partners, first. Otherwise, they'll have a tendancy to administer the FTs.

26 Year Gap Sun Dec 19, 2010 08:33pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by fullor30 (Post 708621)
Looks like my partner from a week ago. For every chop, his arm was this high and against his head, very comical.

Did he have the same kind of hat?

just another ref Sun Dec 19, 2010 08:46pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 708615)

Quote:

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap (Post 708654)
Did he have the same kind of hat?

Snaq, I think he's making fun of your hat.

Adam Sun Dec 19, 2010 09:06pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 708659)
Snaq, I think he's making fun of your hat.

Epstein's mother says to shut up.

26 Year Gap Sun Dec 19, 2010 10:34pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 708663)
Epstein's mother says to shut up.

Your lips are moving.

Rich Sun Dec 19, 2010 10:51pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by co2ice (Post 708596)
Notify head coach, then notify player. Then have the timer give you 20 seconds on the clock.

It's coach, then clock, then player. Otherwise, you're giving the coach time not warranted. The 20 seconds is *not* a free timeout -- we *are* going to be ready to go with a sub by the second horn.

Manual or no manual, we (me and the people I work with) notify the coach on our own DQ fouls in our games here.

stiffler3492 Sun Dec 19, 2010 11:43pm

Is there some sort of penalty for not being ready after the 20 second period?

Adam Sun Dec 19, 2010 11:46pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by stiffler3492 (Post 708689)
is there some sort of penalty for not being ready after the 20 second period?

10-5-2

constable Mon Dec 20, 2010 03:03am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BktBallRef (Post 708614)
Because in 2-man, the NFHS Officials Manual requires the non-calling official to notify the coach and the player.


Had this discussion today at our Christmas meeting. The executive stated that if it's an obvious DQ and it's not a close game and the coach is already getting ready to sub his player not to waste time by not having non-calling official come over and do the notification. This is especially helpful if your association is ignoring the FED mechanic and still switches on every foul.

Jurassic Referee Mon Dec 20, 2010 06:17am

Quote:

Originally Posted by stiffler3492 (Post 708689)
Is there some sort of penalty for not being ready after the 20 second period?

Case book play 10.5.2SitB(c) + what Snaqs cited

BillyMac Mon Dec 20, 2010 07:26am

Rookie Officials Take Note ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RichMSN (Post 708681)
The 20 seconds is not a free timeout, we are going to be ready to go with a sub by the second horn.

Just want to confirm that the word "not" is modifying the word "timeout". RichMSN is correct. Do not treat this like a timeout. There are important differences in terms of allowing substitutions during this time interval. The "warning" horn has a different meaning here.

Adam Mon Dec 20, 2010 07:56am

Quote:

Originally Posted by constable (Post 708700)
Had this discussion today at our Christmas meeting. The executive stated that if it's an obvious DQ and it's not a close game and the coach is already getting ready to sub his player not to waste time by not having non-calling official come over and do the notification. This is especially helpful if your association is ignoring the FED mechanic and still switches on every foul.

Sounds like they're just asking for trouble here.

bob jenkins Mon Dec 20, 2010 08:45am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 708718)
Sounds like they're just asking for trouble here.

Like what?

My pregame usually includes "if a team is fouling at the end of the game to stop the clock, and everyone knows it, just stay there and deal with it. If there's any controversy, go away and let someone else handle the DQ."

Of course, I did have a T in this situation earlier this year.

Adam Mon Dec 20, 2010 09:39am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 708721)
Like what?

My pregame usually includes "if a team is fouling at the end of the game to stop the clock, and everyone knows it, just stay there and deal with it. If there's any controversy, go away and let someone else handle the DQ."

Of course, I did have a T in this situation earlier this year.

I misread; I read it that they were skipping the notification entirely.

Rich Mon Dec 20, 2010 10:12am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 708714)
Just want to confirm that the word "not" is modifying the word "timeout". RichMSN is correct. Do not treat this like a timeout. There are important differences in terms of allowing substitutions during this time interval. The "warning" horn has a different meaning here.

It's modifying "free" and "timeout". Coaches can call the players over, but on the first horn, I'm in the huddle telling the coach I need a sub NOW. That usually means I'm right in there, since notifying the player usually takes about 5 seconds. The coach doesn't want that second horn going off before a player is at the table. That's the key difference, to me -- I will give a little leeway on timeouts because we have the resumption of play procedure if I need it.

26 Year Gap Mon Dec 20, 2010 10:16am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 708714)
Just want to confirm that the word "not" is modifying the word "timeout". RichMSN is correct. Do not treat this like a timeout. There are important differences in terms of allowing substitutions during this time interval. The "warning" horn has a different meaning here.

An 'interval of time' is how my past interpreter put it.

mbyron Mon Dec 20, 2010 12:23pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap (Post 708740)
An 'interval of time' is how my past interpreter put it.

Was his redundancy deliberate?

26 Year Gap Mon Dec 20, 2010 12:28pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbyron (Post 708779)
Was his redundancy deliberate?

Would you repeat the question?

M&M Guy Mon Dec 20, 2010 04:03pm

Why do I keep getting dragged into these things? :confused:

Oh, wait, never mind.

constable Mon Dec 20, 2010 07:25pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 708718)
Sounds like they're just asking for trouble here.

In Ontario the Provincial Association decided last year to ignore the FED mechanic change that happened last year and to switch on every foul and the trail on FT is opposite- just like it used to be prior to 2009.

Does that make more sense?

Adam Mon Dec 20, 2010 10:29pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by constable (Post 708855)
In Ontario the Provincial Association decided last year to ignore the FED mechanic change that happened last year and to switch on every foul and the trail on FT is opposite- just like it used to be prior to 2009.

Does that make more sense?

Yes, but it has nothing to do with how I misread your post. :D

constable Tue Dec 21, 2010 07:19pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 708899)
Yes, but it has nothing to do with how I misread your post. :D


I know. I gotta get better at reading the entire thread. I'm pretty quick to hit reply when I see something directed at me,

cheers


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