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MelbRef Fri Dec 03, 2010 09:43am

Awful Partner
 
How do you guys handle it (at the game) when you end up working with a partner that is beyond awful?

This has never happened before (good association) but just had two consecutive nights with 1st/2nd years that seemed to have no knowledge of mechanics, rules, and court positioning.

Night 1: partner with white socks, dirty shoes, black work pants with belt loops and no belt. Positioned 3 feet on the court in L position, in the way of the players, etc. Train wrecks throughout his primary. Ouch.

Night 2: first pregame question - "what is a 1-on-1, and when do we call it?". (Uh, oh, we're in trouble). Multiple calls (weak whistle) with no indication of the violation or foul. Blows his whistle and looks at me. Coach yelling "what's the call?". I go over - "you have to call something, what did you see?". Other examples: 5 seconds CG in backcourt. 3 seconds nowhere near the paint, etc. Two or three times I had to announce "inadvertent whistle". Crowd enjoying the show...some laughing.

In both cases, the coaches and crowd starting going nuts. I tried to be very decisive and professional just to over compensate. I notified the assigner afterwards in both situations, but how do you best handle this during the actual game? Do you just call everything, everywhere, just to survive? What should/can you say to the coach?

jTheUmp Fri Dec 03, 2010 09:49am

Get In, Get Done, Get Out.

Do the best you can, and call your assigner afterwards if it's really bad.

Adam Fri Dec 03, 2010 09:51am

give them one thing to work on. If it's that obvious to everyone, talk to the coaches and tell them to back off. Be polite, but you're not really asking; you're instructing them to back off.

JohnDorian37 Fri Dec 03, 2010 10:13am

As a new official, this kinda cheers me up. I need a ton of work on learning how to watch multiple things at once and how to discern what should be called and what shouldn't, but I'm not THAT bad.

Indianaref Fri Dec 03, 2010 10:15am

Night 1: I have come across a few officials that have dressed as you discribed, they have surprisingly turn out to officiate a he!! of a game. Secondly, how do you know that these train wrecks, although in his primary, aren't your responsiblity because he was on ball?

Night 2: I doubt if I would say anything to the coach, they probably already know.

Adam Fri Dec 03, 2010 10:18am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indianaref (Post 704961)
Night 2: I doubt if I would say anything to the coach, they probably already know.

yeah, they know, but I'm sure as hell not going to let them spend the game whining and working the rookie. He needs to be able to work the game, and I'm doing what I can to make sure he doesn't get run over by some middle school coach.

Indianaref Fri Dec 03, 2010 10:34am

Quote:

Originally Posted by snaqwells (Post 704963)
yeah, they know, but i'm sure as hell not going to let them spend the game whining and working the rookie. He needs to be able to work the game, and i'm doing what i can to make sure he doesn't get run over by some middle school coach.

+1

JFlores Fri Dec 03, 2010 10:42am

Did you take the opportunity to talk to them after the game was over?? Some guys are looking for input.

This being my fourth year, I always dont mind a little criticism, I have also worked with guys that needed a little talking to as well and I dont mind sharing my limited knowledge.

APG Fri Dec 03, 2010 10:48am

Quote:

Originally Posted by MelbRef (Post 704953)
Night 1: partner with white socks, dirty shoes, black work pants with belt loops and no belt. Positioned 3 feet on the court in L position, in the way of the players, etc. Train wrecks throughout his primary. Ouch.

I'd notify my assignor about the unprofessional appearance, but depending on the level worked, your assignor might need the warm body. As far as positioning goes, talk to the partner during timeouts and bring this up. Train wrecks in his primary, go ahead and expand your coverage and get the big ones.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MelbRef (Post 704953)
Night 2: first pregame question - "what is a 1-on-1, and when do we call it?". (Uh, oh, we're in trouble). Multiple calls (weak whistle) with no indication of the violation or foul. Blows his whistle and looks at me. Coach yelling "what's the call?". I go over - "you have to call something, what did you see?". Other examples: 5 seconds CG in backcourt. 3 seconds nowhere near the paint, etc. Two or three times I had to announce "inadvertent whistle". Crowd enjoying the show...some laughing.

Correct the real big mistakes, talk to your partner on little things to work on during timeouts and halftime, and be supportive especially if your partner seems to want to learn. You'll also have to handle the coaches. I'm not going to let the coach to be continuously whining all game.

Rich Fri Dec 03, 2010 10:50am

I've not been in this type of situation in a long time, but in a 2-person game if we have a train wreck that requires a foul, I'd give my partner a second to get it and if he doesn't, I'm getting it. I won't call through 6 bodies if I have to guess if there's a foul, but I'm not going to let a partner sink our ship, either.

DLH17 Fri Dec 03, 2010 10:52am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JFlores (Post 704975)
Did you take the opportunity to talk to them after the game was over?? Some guys are looking for input.

This being my fourth year, I always dont mind a little criticism, I have also worked with guys that needed a little talking to as well and I dont mind sharing my limited knowledge.

Great advice, in general.

Indianaref Fri Dec 03, 2010 10:55am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JFlores (Post 704975)
Did you take the opportunity to talk to them after the game was over?? Some guys are looking for input.

This being my fourth year, I always dont mind a little criticism, I have also worked with guys that needed a little talking to as well and I dont mind sharing my limited knowledge.

I hope he did. From his OP, it sounds like he just needed help for himself. Every once in a while we have a drive by poster who likes to complain about his partner, who was just awful. Never do they mention the outreach they provided after the game.

MelbRef Fri Dec 03, 2010 10:56am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JFlores (Post 704975)
Did you take the opportunity to talk to them after the game was over?? Some guys are looking for input.

This being my fourth year, I always dont mind a little criticism, I have also worked with guys that needed a little talking to as well and I dont mind sharing my limited knowledge.

Absolutely, most of us are OK with constructive criticism. We also had:
Pre-game prep.
Halftime corrections (survival mode).
Post game discussion.

Tried to be respectful and helpful. Suggested a couple things that they can work on. IMO you can control how you are dressed (no excuse for that). The second guy was flustered and defensive, even though I was very diplomatic. I also think there is no excuse for not knowing the very basic rules such as bonus/double-bonus foul rules (my wife knows this stuff).

Indianaref Fri Dec 03, 2010 10:59am

Quote:

Originally Posted by MelbRef (Post 704982)
Absolutely, most of us are OK with constructive criticism. We also had:
Pre-game prep.
Halftime corrections (survival mode).
Post game discussion.

Tried to be respectful and helpful. Suggested a couple things that they can work on. IMO you can control how you are dressed (no excuse for that). The second guy was flustered and defensive, even though I was very diplomatic. I also think there is no excuse for not knowing the very basic rules such as bonus/double-bonus foul rules (my wife knows this stuff).

Good deal.

fullor30 Fri Dec 03, 2010 11:04am

Help him out. Time outs or dead balls, when appropriate, give him some direction without being obvious. Half time review 3-4 key things you see rather than dump a system overload on him. Sounds like it's trial by fire and not qualified yet for this level. A low level PD game would be a starting place. Red flag though is white sox, goofy pants and not knowing a 1 and 1. Sounds like a non basketball guy looking for a paycheck

We were all there our first game, hopefully he will be receptive to constructive critiquing.

bainsey Fri Dec 03, 2010 11:08am

Solid advice all around here.

Still Melb, I have to ask. What kind of training does your association have for first-year officials? (We go through a lot.)

Andy Fri Dec 03, 2010 11:31am

I don't see anywhere in the OP where it said either of these guys were first-years. Big difference between rookies and just plain weak partners.

I have been the assignor and worked more games than I can remember with weak partners. As the assignor, I would more often than not bite the bullet and work with the "warm bodies". Some of these guys thought they were competent officials and did not want to hear anything about how to work the game. Some were older guys that were of the "I've been doing it this way for 30 years and I'm not changing now!" camp.

My way of handling it was to do my job, call my area, and not try to compensate for my partner. If I needed to deal with a coach, I did, but I'm not taking care of something my partner should handle.

I don't think there is any right or best way to handle this situation, just do what you can.

MelbRef Fri Dec 03, 2010 11:39am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bainsey (Post 704990)

Still Melb, I have to ask. What kind of training does your association have for first-year officials? (We go through a lot.)

Inconsistent: 2 yrs ago=none, 1 yr ago=very good, this year= below average. This year was not mandatory, so it's not clear these guys attended.

Clearly better rookie training is required.

Honestly, most of the training is real games under fire with more experienced officials.

APG Fri Dec 03, 2010 11:40am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy (Post 705003)
I don't see anywhere in the OP where it said either of these guys were first-years.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MelbRef (Post 704953)
This has never happened before (good association) but just had two consecutive nights with 1st/2nd years that seemed to have no knowledge of mechanics, rules, and court positioning.

;)

MelbRef Fri Dec 03, 2010 11:43am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy (Post 705003)

My way of handling it was to do my job, call my area, and not try to compensate for my partner. If I needed to deal with a coach, I did, but I'm not taking care of something my partner should handle.

This addresses the fundamental options:

1) do the above
2) take over the game, expand your primary, call felonies all over the floor. Save the day.

My mentor suggested the latter.

tref Fri Dec 03, 2010 12:21pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichMSN (Post 704977)
I've not been in this type of situation in a long time, but in a 2-person game if we have a train wreck that requires a foul, I'd give my partner a second to get it and if he doesn't, I'm getting it. I won't call through 6 bodies if I have to guess if there's a foul, but I'm not going to let a partner sink our ship, either.

+1

Great mindset!! We get too caught up in PCAs at times, if we have primaries then we have secondaries as well!
Let him live & dies with multiple trainwrecks vs. Doing whats right for the GAME
Hmmmm

JFlores Fri Dec 03, 2010 12:21pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by MelbRef (Post 705009)
This addresses the fundamental options:

1) do the above
2) take over the game, expand your primary, call felonies all over the floor. Save the day.

My mentor suggested the latter.

Bolded for truth, sometimes you have to over compensate to keep the coach and crowd in control. Thats when you start hearing the "Call it both ways, Ref" from both fans and coaches. Can take a turn for the worse real quick.

I agree with you though, if there is one thing you can help, would most def be the appearance. Showing up looking like a train wreck is not acceptable.

JugglingReferee Fri Dec 03, 2010 02:05pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by MelbRef (Post 704953)
How do you guys handle it (at the game) when you end up working with a partner that is beyond awful?

This has never happened before (good association) but just had two consecutive nights with 1st/2nd years that seemed to have no knowledge of mechanics, rules, and court positioning.

Night 1: partner with white socks, dirty shoes, black work pants with belt loops and no belt. Positioned 3 feet on the court in L position, in the way of the players, etc. Train wrecks throughout his primary. Ouch.

Night 2: first pregame question - "what is a 1-on-1, and when do we call it?". (Uh, oh, we're in trouble). Multiple calls (weak whistle) with no indication of the violation or foul. Blows his whistle and looks at me. Coach yelling "what's the call?". I go over - "you have to call something, what did you see?". Other examples: 5 seconds CG in backcourt. 3 seconds nowhere near the paint, etc. Two or three times I had to announce "inadvertent whistle". Crowd enjoying the show...some laughing.

In both cases, the coaches and crowd starting going nuts. I tried to be very decisive and professional just to over compensate. I notified the assigner afterwards in both situations, but how do you best handle this during the actual game? Do you just call everything, everywhere, just to survive? What should/can you say to the coach?

Definitely expand your area, but not right to the sidelines away from you.

Allow more of the "Oh my God" and less of the "Oh my" - meaning step up and take more calls. Especially as trail.

RobbyinTN Mon Dec 13, 2010 10:56pm

I ran into this situation in an AAU play day last year. It was 14-15 year old girls and working two man crew. I get to the gym and my partner says "I have no idea why I am here because I have only called three games". I told my partner (1) don't be afraid to blow your whistle; (2) when you blow it, make sure you use the mechanics for the call and (3) no ball watching. Well it was a disaster - he NEVER blew his whistle the whole first game - even on OOB, jump balls, etc. He was totally confused throughout the game - and we had three more after it. The coaches were livid. I talked with them between periods and told them I would do the best I could to call it but what happened was if there was no call in my partner's area for an obvious violation, they yelled and if I made the call, they would yell that no way could I see that from my area. (Before the game was over, I had whacked both coaches and ejected one of them.)

I took my partner aside after the game and tried to explain to him what was happening. All he would say was "yea I need to work on that". Next game - same thing but fortunately more understanding coaches. Again, I talked to him after the game but same response.

I don't think he ever called another game after that - he isn't listed in our association any more so I hope he has taken an early retirement

Back In The Saddle Tue Dec 14, 2010 12:34pm

My $0.02, from a guy who has been there...

In my experience, when you reach a point where your assigner recognizes that you're a strong, competent official, you'll be "blessed" with opportunities to work with weaker partners. It can certainly be difficult and unpleasant at times. But, it is also a tremendous opportunity for you to step up your game and learn how to control a game, single-handedly when necessary.

No two situations are the same; you need to be prepared to adapt. Some things that I have found helpful are:
  • Maintain perspective: no matter how much pain he causes, remember you are better off with him than without him. Your objective then is not to call the game around him. Your objective is to make the crew better by getting the best you can get out of him.
  • Have a thorough, basic pre-game. Focus on coverage areas and responsibilities. Discuss how to handle common situations. Even if he is nodding and "yeah, yeah-ing," cover it all anyway.
  • You handle everything outside the lines: coaches, table, protocol, introductions, captains meeting, etc.
  • Let your partner call his own area. He needs to learn. When you come get something for him, it lets him off the hook.
  • Get any elephants he misses (We do this even with a strong partner, but you'll likely have more elephants in this game).
  • If the game gets rough, you clean it up, by calling it tighter in your primary and secondary. Get the off-ball stuff especially.
  • If needed, tell the coaches that they will deal with only you. Be responsive. Be prepared to take some heat. Don't throw your partner a bus, but do show empathy. You can't promise that your partner will do better, but you can assure the coach you'll work as hard as you can.
  • Be aware of inconsistencies in how you and your partner call the game. Switch frequently to even them out (again, we do this even with strong partners)
  • Be supportive. The situation is providing plenty of stick, you focus on providing the carrots. Give frequent feedback on things he is doing right. Praise any improvement, no matter how small.
  • Remember what your first game was like. What appears to you to be a really slow-moving game is often a blur to a new official. Help him adjust by giving him a very few, specific things to focus on. Being told to watch my two closest matchups was a huge help to me in slowing the game down and seeing what matters.
  • Be prepared to help: know who his shooter is, know who his fouler was, know who tipped to ball OOB, at the end of a time out remind him whose possession and where the throw-in is, etc.
  • Communicate, communicate, communicate.

I came to a point where I realized the next step in my growth was to become a strong enough official that I could carry a weak partner. That was a great step for me. Then, I realized the next step was to become a strong enough partner that I could make a weak partner better. That was an even better step for me.

Good luck!

RookieDude Tue Dec 14, 2010 12:54pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle (Post 707408)
no matter how much pain he causes, remember you are better off with him than without him.

Hmmmm...maybe it's my arrogance...but, this is the only point, out of your illustrious list...that I have to disagree with.

Bits...you know you could do a better game by yourself, than with the partners described in the OP.

TimTaylor Tue Dec 14, 2010 01:14pm

BITS,

I like the list - good suggestions. Only thing I would add is don't overload them with too much information all at once - focus on one or two things. When they're new and struggling, it's very easy for them to go into information overload just trying to keep up with the simple basics we all take for granted - be prepared to spoon feed it as needed.

Back In The Saddle Tue Dec 14, 2010 01:54pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by RookieDude (Post 707413)
Hmmmm...maybe it's my arrogance...but, this is the only point, out of your illustrious list...that I have to disagree with.

Bits...you know you could do a better game by yourself, than with the partners described in the OP.

Perhaps you could. The very few solo games I've worked have not been very good experiences. Honestly, working solo is a skill that I do not want to get good at. ;)

Back In The Saddle Tue Dec 14, 2010 02:08pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by TimTaylor (Post 707423)
BITS,

I like the list - good suggestions. Only thing I would add is don't overload them with too much information all at once - focus on one or two things. When they're new and struggling, it's very easy for them to go into information overload just trying to keep up with the simple basics we all take for granted - be prepared to spoon feed it as needed.

You are absolutely right. "As needed" is a very good way to approach it. With one partner, just "confining" him to his area might be enough simplifying to get him on his feet. With another, getting him to blow his whistle on most OOB or obvious fouls might be the most you should ask for. I have had both of those partners, and survived.

I'm not sure if you were referring to this, but even with the most inexperienced partner, I would not scrimp on the pre-game. Certainly he won't remember to do most of what's talked about, but I want him to know what "we" are doing so he has enough information to follow my lead (e.g., I'm coming toward him before the first free throw because we're switching, I'm standing at mid court with my hand up because I'm bringing in subs, etc.)

TimTaylor Tue Dec 14, 2010 02:29pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle (Post 707446)
.....I'm not sure if you were referring to this, but even with the most inexperienced partner, I would not scrimp on the pre-game. Certainly he won't remember to do most of what's talked about, but I want him to know what "we" are doing so he has enough information to follow my lead (e.g., I'm coming toward him before the first free throw because we're switching, I'm standing at mid court with my hand up because I'm bringing in subs, etc.)

Agreed. The pre-game is not a place to scrimp. If anything, it can help give you a feel for your partner's experience and comfort level, and what you might want to focus on. It's also a great time to get the communication process started. When I'm working with someone that I know is new or doesn't have a lot of experience, I make it a point to have a brief, casual "getting to know each other" conversation before launching into the pregame, and may modify it accordingly.

Upward ref Tue Dec 14, 2010 10:12pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnDorian37 (Post 704960)
As a new official, this kinda cheers me up. I need a ton of work on learning how to watch multiple things at once and how to discern what should be called and what shouldn't, but I'm not THAT bad.

+ 1 ! I wasn't sure for a while ,but now relieved to know i'm not the worst either . :)

Upward ref Tue Dec 14, 2010 10:38pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle (Post 707437)
Perhaps you could. The very few solo games I've worked have not been very good experiences. Honestly, working solo is a skill that I do not want to get good at. ;)

With 3 games under my belt, I had to call a mens rec league game by myself last Friday. They were all middle age, Ex William and Mary alumni . They did a lot of hollering who's ball it should be etc, and I let some mild cursing slide ( not at me ) but it wasn't a total disaster , just a partial ! :o
Our assignor certainly makes allowances for what he calls "greenhorns" but absolutely wont tolerate unprofessional conduct or dress. We've had good training and mentoring I believe . My girls JV partner tonight just assigned himself to be my mentor effective immediately ! :) It also helped that he knew some of the fans that were giving me the business!

Terrance "TJ" Wed Dec 15, 2010 05:04am

My first game last year I had the fans all up in a frenzy. But I had a partner that was patient (most guys in our association are good guys and would've been the same). He would talk with me during time-outs, dead balls, between quarters. I know he saw the slight panic from time to time. I also was lucky that the school's AD was an official. So the coaches knew I was "a little wet behind the ears". Once the coaches (never the fans....fans don't ever let up, rookie or 20-30 yrs. vet.) saw that I was being receptive to my partner, talking/discussing and taking small direction from the AD when he could slip in it there, they backed off.
All I would ask(ed) {on the DL..herniated disc :mad::(} of someone calling with me is to realize I'm trying my hardest, talk with me...not to me, and be receptive of something I might need to ask/clarify.
Now the appearance is just not ok, even in my book. I knew I would need to put out money, and thats what I did. If you look good doing it, you won't stick out as much (hopefully).

badgerfan Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:35am

Interesting thread--very good points by everyone here. I am a 5th year official with a lot of experience in Middle School games.

This week I was assigned a Boys MS game with a partner who is an excellent Boys HS Varsity player (may be going to the next level). Because he had practice prior to the game, he arrived several minutes before tip-off. I was unaware, until his arrival, that it was his first game----had limited pre-game with him. His appearance was OK, but had the signs of 1st time---weak whistle, zero mechanics, etc. Fortunately, the game was a blow-out.

I will be working a Boys MS game with him again this week---may have limited pre-game because of his practice schedule. However, this game will be very competitive between rival Private Schools. Fortunately, I have worked many games with these schools & have "respect" of the coaches---probably why the assigner matched us up.

"Back In The Saddle", you provided many useful points---Thanks for your input.


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