Any Rule Against This Lame Tactic?
 

See it with younger kids--a late defender has no play on a shot so s/he claps his/her hands and yells in the ear of the shooter.

Anything wrong with this from a rules standpoint? (NFHS)

No.

Peace

Unsporting technical foul.

Red State, Blue State ???
 

Polar opposites. Anyone care to expound? Let the games begin. This is going to be good.

Someone just yelling is a Technical foul? Where does it say that anywhere? So if a defender says "Shot" and claps their hands we are going to give the player a T? That happens in about every game at least once and I have not ever seen a T for such action. Again when in Rome......

Peace

Well it's more than just yelling...

I suppose if it really bothered you, you could tell him to knock it off.

Don't go there girl, :D.

MTD, Sr.

Unless the player is actually saying something unsporting, play on.

Bush league, but unless I get direction to call a foul on this, I've got nothing.

Well you are going to be more descriptive. You said "yelling." Now if you have some specific words maybe that will change my judgment on this. Also not sure I have ever seen a player get close enough to yell in the ear of a shooter where they are so close.

Exactly.

Peace

ART. 14 . . . An unsporting foul is a noncontact technical foul which consists
of unfair, unethical, dishonorable conduct or any behavior not in accordance with
the spirit of fair play.

If the official judges that the yelling meets this definition, then there is clear rules support for assessing a technical foul.

Sure, you can. But the question of whether you should is a different one altogether. Check local listings.

POE #1 Rules Enforcement
POE #2 Sporting Behavior

So if one believe that the action constitutes unsporting behavior, why would one not make the call? Is there a fear of what someone else thinks?

A cranky, old poster would say that anyone who officiates that way might as well shove the whistle up his backside.

Yes, the assignor. And the question of why I would be the only person calling such a thing for a player yelling.

Peace

I wouldn't advise anyone to officiate in fear of the assignor. If you call what you see and what you believe is right, then a good assignor will back you. If you don't receive that support, then you will be better off not working for that person.

Ask rockyroad.

Fear has nothing to do with this situation. It has to do with common sense. And it does not display much common sense for calling a T for this. I would have the same reaction if I heard someone gave a T and I do not assign a single game from others if I do not work for one guy anymore. But yelling at a player is has not even been considered unsportsmanlike while the player is shooting. I have never seen such interpretation to support such an action. Of course you could go there (based on the rules you referenced), but if you played any basketball in your life, people use their voice from time to time. And yes, they yell at the shooter some time. Next thing you are going to tell me a player cannot yell out anything to their teammates.

Peace

I actually agree with you on this one, I think.

But what the hell does the above sentence mean?

If I heard someone call a T for this, I would cringe and shake my head in disbelief.

Peace

OOO :rolleyes:

But if what you believe is right is actually considered completely and totally wrong by accepted officiating practice, then a good assignor will put your OOO azz into middle school games where you can't further embarrass him or his association.

I'm a good assignor. :D You might work for me again but it sureashell wouldn't be in a meaningful game if you ever pulled crap like that and insisted you'd do it again under the same circumstances.

There really does exist what is known as the "expected call". And the expected call in this particular case sureashell ain't an unsporting "T".

My personal recommendation is to check with your local rules interpreter before even thinking of following Nevada's advice on this one. That might just save you a future ton of grief.

The only time I've ever seen this was on a free throw. I had the delayed disconcertion violation, but the free throw was good, so I simply spoke with the kid.

We are instructed here to T up repeated yelling when it's obviously designed to taunt ("dead dead dead"), but it's questionable whether this is applicable in the OP.

Here's a thought. If A-1 goes on an easy breakaway, and Coach B spews profanity along the way, we are supposed to hold the T until after the shot. Let's say, in the OP, the shooter misses the shot. What about using judgment that the yelling caused this miss? (If the shot is good, what's wrong with merely speaking to young yeller?)

By the way, I never bothered to ask this: "OOO?"

"Dead, dead, dead" is taunting? Not here -- it's notice to the other players to change the defense.

OOO ==> Overly Officious Oaf

On the OP, it would have to be significantly more egregious than I have ever seen or heard of for me to call a T (in the absence of specific instruction from above).

Good Lord!!!!:eek:

But after seeing some of the rulings issued by your local board interpreter, I gotta say that I ain't really surprised. Amazed? Yup. But not surprised.

Lah me....:rolleyes:

That particular tactic, while it might be personally irritating, is accepted as being just that....only personally irritating. It is one helluva stretch to call it unsporting.

But if it'll make you feel any better, Nevada is proud of your interpreter for standing up for Truth, Justice and the American Way.

Lah.....me....

You mean this one? I was going to suggest that cranky old poster would also say not to be the only official in your area making this call.

Fortunately, I read to the end of the thread before commenting this morning:

If you are really paying attention while you officiate you would notice the "dead, dead, dead" yell means that the ball-handler no longer can dribble the ball.

Reminds me of a joke:

Daniel Webster is sitting in his home office and has his secretary on his lap. His wife walks in, sees the situation, and declares, "Daniel! I'm surprised!"

Webster replies, "No, my dear, it is I who am surprised. You are astonished!"

Be here all week. ;)

Here, we know the difference between basketball and golf. ;)

Yes, we know that. The question, as I've been told, is whether the defender is communicating with his team, or taunting his opponent. Why say "dead" more than twice? What's his purpose?

Truthfully, I see "dead dead dead" or "ball ball ball" very rarely in these parts. I believe word has gotten out that can be a T, so the coaches and players have adapted.

Simply put, when in Rome. If you guys do something differently elsewhere, then fine. Adapt to the world in which you are. The ultimate need for your basketball community is that everyone is on the same page where you live and serve. I may not agree with some of the things I'm taught, but I'll follow through on the instructions, as the bigger picture is consistency in the locale. I'm not so arrogant that I believe that my way is the only way to call a game.

JR I have wondered for a while what "Lah me" means. I just looked it up in the online urban dictionary.

Here is the definition:
Arabic for meat. Without lahme no one can live because lahme is the best creation in za universe if the lahme not exist zen i will just curse.

This does not seem to fit. A little help please. :confused:

The idea is that they say "dead" as long as the ball holder does not have a dribble. It's communication, and it also keeps the team engaged.

That said, we don't see it much around here. That may be because oxygen is at a premium here, though.

I saw it with some of the better girls programs in Iowa. Of course, I also saw some of the lesser programs just be annoying with it; not really understanding the purpose.

I've can't recall seeing a boys team do it.

You say it multiple times to make sure everyone on the team has heard the status of the ball. I really can't believe this to be taunting in any way. Do we think someone on Team B is gonna deck Team A because they told each other that a player can't dribble the ball? When in Rome I suppose but this really baffles me. :confused:

+1 on all counts.

Wow
 

I often hear players say "dead, dead, dead" when the opponent has picked up the dribble at high levels of boys and girls ball. And when I coached we would teach players to do this.

As others have said, it is simple communication with teamates and how to defend accordingly. You repeat it to make sure everyone hears you and to let them know the ball is still "dead."

How this could be interpreted as taunting is beyond me. And IMO it's short-sighted interpretations like this that help give officiating a bad rep in some people's eyes.

"dead, dead, dead" is NOT taunting in my book...."na, na, na, na, na, naaahhhh - you can't dribble anymore; you can't dribble anymore! hey everybody look - it's Mr. 'I can't dribble anymore'..." now THAT is taunting.

IF a partner of mine called a T for "taunting" or "unsportsmanlike behavior" in this situation, you can be sure that I will be conducting some serious taunting of said official in the locker room after the game...:)

Now that's funny.

Yep. You don't want to be 'that guy'.

And Jeffpea "tries" to taunt me often, but I would not want to be on the end of this barrage of comments if I ever called this one. :D

Peace

It is possible to be taunting in this situation. It depends on how the word(s) is used towards another opponent.

A1 repeatedly yells "ball, ball, ball” at B1 who does not have the ball. I can understand A1 being warned and if the unsporting act continues, receiving a player technical foul.

What is the purpose of yelling at the opponent? Is this in the spirit of the game? Are the words used inappropriately?

This action by team A could cause retaliation by players on team B, leading to possible flagrant acts and fights.

NFHS Rule 10-2-6c

It is rare but I have seen similar actions by teams or a player, to use gestures or words to intimidate an opponent.

Verbal and physical tactics are very difficult to detect. E.g., A1 slightly tugs at B1’s jersey during a shot attempt and B1 misses the shot. Is this a foul or a no call or hold your whistle if shot goes in?

The players are getting real good at staying under the radar preventing from being seen or showing that you as a ref should not make a “ticky tack” call on players using 2 fingers slightly tugging an opponents jersey.

OOO imo.

I say this to myself so I can remember that the dribble has been used up. I have terrible memory sometimes. ;)

Just don't say it too loudly.

I was always under the impression that here in America the clapping of hands was meant to show appreciation and support for actions. NO ONE seems to stop and consider that maybe the defender is just applauding the effort of the offensive player and is joyful that said effort has resulted in a positive outcome? I mean how hard is that to understand?? This isn't Europe or S. America where a whistle is a BAD thing but a good thing here. Geez people!:D

I've said it before and I'll say it again. THIS IS NOT GOLF! Noise and distractions are part of the game. If players can't handle it, they might consider switching sports.

Yelling in an "unsporting" manner would, IMO, be VERY unusual.

Don't go looking for trouble, you just might find it.

OK I don't say it, I think it loudly in my brain. :)