The Official Forum

The Official Forum (https://forum.officiating.com/)
-   Basketball (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/)
-   -   Coach Asks (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/59883-coach-asks.html)

youngref33 Fri Nov 26, 2010 09:37pm

Coach Asks
 
Last minute of 4th.
Team B is pressing. I am the Lead.
Coach say to me.
"Watch team B holding #22 jersey, please get a good look at it."

Heres the deal.
I am in the front court, A22 is in the back court, right in front of C.

If they would of held A22 and there was no call, how would I handle that with that coach being right next to me?

zm1283 Fri Nov 26, 2010 10:37pm

If it's happening right in front of your partner, you won't see it because you'll be watching other players.

Ignore the coach if that's all he says and it's during live action.

Adam Fri Nov 26, 2010 11:10pm

Either a generic "I'll watch for it" or no response since he didn't ask a question. If it's the first thing he's said to me all night, he'll get the generic response. If he asks later why I didn't call it, "Coach, I had four other players I was watching."

Mark Padgett Fri Nov 26, 2010 11:16pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 703448)
Either a generic "I'll watch for it" or no response since he didn't ask a question. If it's the first thing he's said to me all night, he'll get the generic response. If he asks later why I didn't call it, "Coach, I had four other players I was watching."

I prefer, "It wasn't my area, coach."

deecee Sat Nov 27, 2010 12:52am

this is a comment i would completley ignore. coach is fishing for a call.

Scrapper1 Sat Nov 27, 2010 08:36am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett (Post 703450)
I prefer, "It wasn't my area, coach."

Most of Mark's posts are supposed to be vaguely humorous, but I don't see a smilie on this one. If this is a serious response, I would advise against using this phrase.

Even though you don't mean it this way, it tells the coach, "Yeah, I saw the foul too, but I didn't call it." It would be better to tell the coach that you were focusing on other players closer to you.

Raymond Sat Nov 27, 2010 09:26am

Quote:

Originally Posted by youngref33 (Post 703445)
Last minute of 4th.
Team B is pressing. I am the Lead.
Coach say to me.
"Watch team B holding #22 jersey, please get a good look at it."

Heres the deal.
I am in the front court, A22 is in the back court, right in front of C.

If they would of held A22 and there was no call, how would I handle that with that coach being right next to me?

During live action I'm ignoring the comment.

And how would you know if your partner missed the hold anyway?

BktBallRef Sat Nov 27, 2010 11:22am

Quote:

Originally Posted by youngref33 (Post 703445)
Heres the deal.
I am in the front court, A22 is in the back court, right in front of C.

If they would of held A22 and there was no call, how would I handle that with that coach being right next to me?

OK, A22 and the C are in the BC. If the C is in the BC, then so is the T.

That means you're at L. How is the coach right next to you? :confused:

Rich Sat Nov 27, 2010 11:42am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett (Post 703450)
I prefer, "It wasn't my area, coach."

There's a better way of saying the exact same thing:

"I was watching XXXXX," replacing the XXXXX with exactly what you were watching at that particular time.

Or even saying, "I was looking elsewhere" sounds marginally better than saying "it's not my area."

Or even saying, "I didn't see it, but I'll keep an eye out for it."

Coaches DO NOT CARE about areas or primaries or such.

Last night, working GV, a girl ended up with a bloody nose while jostling with a girl off-ball. I was on-ball, which means (in the lovely 2-person system) that my partner had to (essentially) pick up 8 other players. I figured he didn't see it. The coach, on the next dead ball, gave me a sub for his daughter (why is it always the coach's daughter?) and told me about #42 giving a shot to his players. I listened, asked a clarifying question, and told him I would keep an eye on it. The coach was satisfied, we went back to work, and the girl came back in with her nose plugged up on the next dead ball.

Rich Sat Nov 27, 2010 11:45am

Quote:

Originally Posted by deecee (Post 703461)
this is a comment i would completley ignore. coach is fishing for a call.

To me, it depends. If it's a live ball and I can get out of his lap quickly, I'm ignoring it too. If he corrals me during a dead ball, I'm going to listen to him, tell him I'll look for it, and then get out of his lap. Even though it's not worded as a question, to me there are some "comments" that are really implied questions and this is borderline.

Coaches don't like being ignored. If it looks like you have other things to do, fine, but ignoring him during a dead ball just doesn't seem like the right thing to do.

Judtech Sat Nov 27, 2010 11:50am

"Go F*$& yourself coach"?
"Maybe if your players jersey was tucked in the defensive player couldn't hold it"
"I didn't see the hold b/c I was watching your player set an illegal screen"
"I cant count pass 20 b/c I run out of toes"
"What? Did you see the hot mom on the third row?"

All of which I would then filter into:
"Ok , coach, got it, I 'll take a look at it next time":D

deecee Sat Nov 27, 2010 12:35pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichMSN (Post 703504)
Coaches don't like being ignored. If it looks like you have other things to do, fine, but ignoring him during a dead ball just doesn't seem like the right thing to do.

I agree coaches dont like being ignored, i simply answered the question based on the what was asked. Dead ball was not one of the qualifiers.

Rich Sat Nov 27, 2010 12:50pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by deecee (Post 703520)
I agree coaches dont like being ignored, i simply answered the question based on the what was asked. Dead ball was not one of the qualifiers.

Agreed. I guess I was just saying that I may ignore or may not ignore based on the original post. Depends where I'm standing and how long I'm standing there. If I'm in his lap for a bit, I'll probably acknowledge him at least even if it's during a live ball.

Last night we had an inbounds pass near the division line and the player caught the ball and established frontcourt status with one foot (only) down in the frontcourt. As she pivoted her other foot towards the backcourt, I wished I was somewhere else, cause I knew in that split-second I was about to call a backcourt violation and have the visiting coach tell me she's allowed to do that. That's exactly what happened and I felt it was worth a quick explanation since I was standing right next to the coach (well, at the division line tableside) when I made the call. I told him what happened and he said, "what about the three points?" and I told him that "three points" only applies on a dribble -- the whole exchange took about 5-10 seconds. After the game, I asked my partner in the locker room if I should've just called it and moved on and he said, "well, after the explanation the coach sat down and didn't say another word about it" (partner bumped up to take the throw in on the violation) so maybe I made the right choice, although I'm not a big fan of proactively explaining my calls without a question -- in this case there was a question even if it wasn't in the form of one....

I digress, but it's great to be working again.

DesMoines Sun Nov 28, 2010 01:23am

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichMSN (Post 703526)
...we had an inbounds pass near the division line and the player caught the ball and established frontcourt status with one foot (only) down in the frontcourt. As she pivoted her other foot towards the backcourt...

So, the player had both feet down in the frontcourt, then pivoted into the backcourt?

I've had this happen to me too. The whole time the coach in my head is thinking, don't... don't.... too late. Whistle.

Adam Sun Nov 28, 2010 01:27am

Quote:

Originally Posted by DesMoines (Post 703600)
So, the player had both feet down in the frontcourt, then pivoted into the backcourt?

I've had this happen to me too. The whole time the coach in my head is thinking, don't... don't.... too late. Whistle.

Nope, he caught it with one foot on the floor; in the front court. Then put his 2nd foot down in the backcourt.

Rich Sun Nov 28, 2010 01:51am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 703601)
Nope, he caught it with one foot on the floor; in the front court. Then put his 2nd foot down in the backcourt.

Yup. A clear violation, although the coach thought the "three points" should apply.

Glad to see I made it to my second game of the season (this afternoon, boys varsity) before having to whack a head coach. Sigh. Now I get to file a report with the state.

bob jenkins Sun Nov 28, 2010 09:32am

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichMSN (Post 703526)
Last night we had an inbounds pass near the division line and the player caught the ball and established frontcourt status with one foot (only) down in the frontcourt.

Caught it in the air and landed on one foot in the FC, or caught it on the ground with one foot in the FC?

(edit: never mind. I see it was answered later).

DesMoines Sun Nov 28, 2010 09:34am

Yep... BillyMac should update this in the Misunderstood Rules post. His paragraph on this rule says it doesn't matter which foot comes down first... but it does. (9.9.1 SITUATION A)

Welpe Sun Nov 28, 2010 09:50am

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichMSN (Post 703604)

Glad to see I made it to my second game of the season (this afternoon, boys varsity) before having to whack a head coach. Sigh. Now I get to file a report with the state.

I take it you need to file a report everytime you T up a coach? The coaches I've had so far have been pretty mild. Probably just the calm before the storm.

BillyMac Sun Nov 28, 2010 10:44am

Au Contraire, Mon Amie ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DesMoines (Post 703621)
BillyMac should update this in the Misunderstood Rules post. His paragraph on this rule says it doesn't matter which foot comes down first... but it does. (9.9.1 SITUATION A)

No, it doesn't.

Here's the paragraph from the list:

During a throwin, or jump ball, any player; or a defensive player, in making a steal; may legally jump from his or her frontcourt, secure control of the ball with both feet off the floor, and return to the floor with one or both feet in the backcourt. The player may make a normal landing and it makes no difference whether the first foot down is in the frontcourt or the backcourt. These three situations are not backcourt violations.

Here's your case play:

9.9.1 SITUATION A: A1 catches the throw-in pass with one foot on the floor in
A's frontcourt
and the other foot not touching the floor. The non-pivot foot then
comes down in A's backcourt. RULING: Violation. Team control is established in
A's frontcourt when A1 catches the throw-in pass. The violation occurs when A1
subsequently touches the backcourt with the non-pivot foot. (4-12-6; 9-9-3)

The paragraph from the list refers to an "airborne catcher". The case play refers to a a player who caught the throwin pass with one foot in the frontcourt. Apples and oranges.

DesMoines Sun Nov 28, 2010 10:52am

Whoops! I stand corrected. Apologies.

BillyMac Sun Nov 28, 2010 11:21am

IAABO Refresher Exam ???
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DesMoines (Post 703629)
Whoops! I stand corrected. Apologies.

Mr. Iowa: Your post gave me a good excuse to bring up an odd question from the 2010-11 IAABO Refresher Exam:

15. Defensive player B-2 leaps from his frontcourt and intercepts a pass from A-1 and lands on one foot in the frontcourt, jumps from that foot and comes to the floor in a stride jump stop with both feet landing simultaneously in his backcourt. The officials rules this a backcourt violation. Is the official correct?
Answer: No (9-9-3).

Did I get an easy question wrong? I guess that a legal landing is the same as a normal landing?

Scrapper1 Sun Nov 28, 2010 04:30pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 703631)
I guess that a legal landing is the same as a normal landing?

That must be the thinking behind the answer, but I admit that I would call a violation every time.

mplagrow Sun Nov 28, 2010 08:23pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett (Post 703450)
I prefer, "It wasn't my area, coach."

Incidentally, coaches prefer that response too.:D

justacoach Sun Nov 28, 2010 08:47pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 703631)
Mr. Iowa: Your post gave me a good excuse to bring up an odd question from the 2010-11 IAABO Refresher Exam:

15. Defensive player B-2 leaps from his frontcourt and intercepts a pass from A-1 and lands on one foot in the frontcourt, jumps from that foot and comes to the floor in a stride jump stop with both feet landing simultaneously in his backcourt. The officials rules this a backcourt violation. Is the official correct?
Answer: No (9-9-3).

Did I get an easy question wrong? I guess that a legal landing is the same as a normal landing?

Billy, does "stride jump stop" carry a specific meaning in IAABO vernacular?

JRutledge Sun Nov 28, 2010 09:05pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichMSN (Post 703503)
There's a better way of saying the exact same thing:

"I was watching XXXXX," replacing the XXXXX with exactly what you were watching at that particular time.

Or even saying, "I was looking elsewhere" sounds marginally better than saying "it's not my area."

Or even saying, "I didn't see it, but I'll keep an eye out for it."

Coaches DO NOT CARE about areas or primaries or such.

This is all true, but they are going to accept that answer from me. Honestly I think we worry too much about how they are going to react to the truth. If I was not looking there I see no reason to lie. If I saw the play and did not judge the action to be a foul, then I will say so. If my partner had a better look on a play (or it was in their primary) I will tell them that.

When coaches or players are asking you to watch for something, it usually means "bail me out from myself." Often when a player thinks their being held they want to give that as the excuse for not making an attempt to get away. When a coach insists you look for something, they are saying "please help my team out because I need the call."

I tend to play the same game with them and say something or ignore them. When I usually say something like, "Well I did not see it that way" and I explain why, those comments tend to stop. I do not tell them how their job, they have no business telling me how to do my job.

Peace


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:04am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1