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-   -   The Most Misunderstood Basketball Rules (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/59848-most-misunderstood-basketball-rules.html)

jmwking Fri Nov 26, 2010 11:01pm

I've found this fascinating enough to register after many years of lurking. Thanks, Billymac, for all the work that's obviously gone into this.

I do have a question (or three), as in your introduction you said you used this with the college game, too. I don't know if you have any intention that this list work for NCAA rules or not, but I'd at least like to ask or point out these discrepancies I noticed in case someone reads it from that angle. If I've missed something painfully obvious, please forgive me!

You stated that "the backboard has nothing to do with goaltending". The NCAA (4-34.3) says "When the entire ball is above the level of the ring during a field-goal try and contacts the backboard, it is considered to be on its downward flight. In such a case, it is goaltending when the ball is touched by a player."

Also, for a 5 second violation, you said, "the count continues even if defenders switch". The NCAA (4-13.3) states "After the start of a five-second closely guarded count, in order for a closely guarded violation to occur, there shall be continuous guarding by the same opponent."

Lastly, you said "a player saving the ball in the air can ask for and be granted a timeout even if that player is going out of bounds." NCAA (5-12.1.c) has "No timeouts shall be granted... to a player or coach when an airborne player’s momentum is carrying him/her out of bounds or into the backcourt."

Again, I'm only pointing this out as you indicated you gave this presentation to college audiences, and these points didn't seem to mesh.

Thanks.

Adam Fri Nov 26, 2010 11:13pm

Interesting catches; two of those three are, I think, fairly recent changes at the NCAA level.

chseagle Fri Nov 26, 2010 11:20pm

Schmuck is most often used in American English as a pejorative or insult, meaning an obnoxious, contemptible person; one who is stupid, foolish, or detestable. The word is also used by many Jewish people across Europe with similar pejorative meanings. Variants of spelling and alterations include shmuck, schmo, and shmo.

Got the definition from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schmuck_(pejorative)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 703324)
What is the meaning of this word "schmucked" that both you, and Woody, from the NFHS Basketball Forum, have been using today? Is this some type of colloquial thing? Are you two from the same neighborhood in hell.


justacoach Sat Nov 27, 2010 12:39am

"The Joys of Yiddish"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by chseagle (Post 703452)
Schmuck is most often used in American English as a pejorative or insult, meaning an obnoxious, contemptible person; one who is stupid, foolish, or detestable. The word is also used by many Jewish people across Europe with similar pejorative meanings. Variants of spelling and alterations include shmuck, schmo, and shmo.

Got the definition from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schmuck_(pejorative)

The most dissonant aspect of JR's usage is this term is always used as a noun. Using it as a verb form is highly irregular and may be indigenous to the environs of Hell. As JR is obviously a shagitz, he can be excused his error.

PS:Timerboy, I'm surprised you didn't reflexively mention the diminutive form; schmeckel

chseagle Sat Nov 27, 2010 01:25am

Schmuck | Define Schmuck at Dictionary.com

schmuck [shmuhk]
–noun Slang .
an obnoxious or contemptible person.

Origin:
1890–95; < Yiddish shmok (vulgar) lit., p£nis (of uncert. orig.)

Schmekel's definition is of a small organ

Quote:

Originally Posted by justacoach (Post 703457)
The most dissonant aspect of JR's usage is this term is always used as a noun. Using it as a verb form is highly irregular and may be indigenous to the environs of Hell. As JR is obviously a shagitz, he can be excused his error.

PS:Timerboy, I'm surprised you didn't reflexively mention the diminutive form; schmeckel


BillyMac Sat Nov 27, 2010 06:59am

NFHS Rules ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jmwking (Post 703447)
You indicated you gave this presentation to college audiences, and these points didn't seem to mesh.

College level coaching class at a small Christian college. Most of these students were former high school players who hoped to coach high school basketball after graduation. I made it clear to them at the time that these were a set of high school rules and that NCAA rules, and NBA rules, although similar, were not exactly the same.

mbyron Sat Nov 27, 2010 07:27am

Quote:

Originally Posted by justacoach (Post 703457)
The most dissonant aspect of JR's usage is this term is always used as a noun. Using it as a verb form is highly irregular and may be indigenous to the environs of Hell. As JR is obviously a shagitz, he can be excused his error.

PS:Timerboy, I'm surprised you didn't reflexively mention the diminutive form; schmeckel

Yiddish has 113 words synonymous with 'schmuck,' but they all have subtle shades of meaning. 'Schmuck' and 'schmekel' both can be applied with a wink and a smile to your buddy; somebody who is more annoying might be a 'putz'.

Freddy Sat Nov 27, 2010 07:56am

On Palming...
 
The paragraph on "palming" might benefit from a mention of the visually enabling illustration, "Anything more than a handshake..."

grunewar Sat Nov 27, 2010 08:07am

Schmekel? Putz?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mbyron (Post 703476)
Yiddish has 113 words synonymous with 'schmuck,' but they all have subtle shades of meaning. 'Schmuck' and 'schmekel' both can be applied with a wink and a smile to your buddy; somebody who is more annoying might be a 'putz'.

Coach, I haven't heard those terms in many a yr.......

Man, I may actually go over to my dad's later today and let him read this thread. He might get a kick out of it too! :p

jmwking Sat Nov 27, 2010 09:11am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 703475)
College level coaching class at a small Christian college. Most of these students were former high school players who hoped to coach high school basketball after graduation. I made it clear to them at the time that these were a set of high school rules and that NCAA rules, and NBA rules, although similar, were not exactly the same.

Ah. Thanks for the clarification.

Scrapper1 Sat Nov 27, 2010 10:41pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freddy (Post 703479)
The paragraph on "palming" might benefit from a mention of the visually enabling illustration, "Anything more than a handshake..."

Palming a schmuck??? :eek:

Scrapper1 Sat Nov 27, 2010 10:44pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmwking (Post 703447)
You stated that "the backboard has nothing to do with goaltending". The NCAA (4-34.3) says "When the entire ball is above the level of the ring during a field-goal try and contacts the backboard, it is considered to be on its downward flight. In such a case, it is goaltending when the ball is touched by a player."

I take this to mean that touching the backboard has nothing to do with GT, which is true even at the college level. As BillyMac has it written here, I can understand how it could be confusing when considering the college rule. (But in fairness to Billy, I'm pretty sure he was only writing with NFHS rules in mind.)

JugglingReferee Sun Nov 28, 2010 03:51am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 703440)
Yes indeed. I love to reminisce about my youth. It was a much simpler time. Oh the wonderful memories: The Six Days War; Berlin Wall; Watergate; Bay of Pigs; Cuban missile crisis; JFK, Malcolm X, Robert F. Kennedy, and MLK Jr. assassinated; Vietnam War; Racial bigotry; Fallout shelters.

We didn't star the fire... It was always burning...

vatennball Sun Dec 05, 2010 07:33pm

throw in violation
 
I was at a high school game and following a made basket the inbounding teams player held the ball for 3 seconds and then inbounded the ball. His teammate allowed the ball to roll upcourt without touching it. The official call a 5 second violation stating his teammate has to touch the ball for the 5 second count to stop. I did not think this was the corret interpetation, but did not know what section to reference. Any help would be appreciated.

Adam Sun Dec 05, 2010 07:35pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by vatennball (Post 705508)
I was at a high school game and following a made basket the inbounding teams player held the ball for 3 seconds and then inbounded the ball. His teammate allowed the ball to roll upcourt without touching it. The official call a 5 second violation stating his teammate has to touch the ball for the 5 second count to stop. I did not think this was the corret interpetation, but did not know what section to reference. Any help would be appreciated.

If that was why he made the call, he was wrong, and I'll bet he makes a lot of 5 second calls that shouldn't be made.

Was this particular official an older gentleman?


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