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AHSAA_Ref Tue Nov 23, 2010 01:36pm

Pay Attention!
 
Last night (NFHS):

A23 fouls out. R reports the foul, and is notified of the 5th personal. B20 is at the line to shoot 1-and-1.
R notifies the player and A-HC. R goes to the table to start the 20-sec. clock, and U1 administers the free throw to A20. Free throw is made, but A has not replaced its player yet.

What do you do?

Raymond Tue Nov 23, 2010 01:40pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by AHSAA_Ref (Post 702821)
Last night (NFHS):

A23 fouls out. R reports the foul, and is notified of the 5th personal. B20 is at the line to shoot 1-and-1.
R notifies the player and A-HC. R goes to the table to start the 20-sec. clock, and U1 administers the free throw to A20. Free throw is made, but A has not replaced its player yet.

What do you do?

Blow your whistle, get the sub in, shoot the second free throw, talk to your partner after the game.

AHSAA_Ref Tue Nov 23, 2010 01:42pm

Caveat #1: If he misses the first free throw? (Remember it's 1-and-1)

tref Tue Nov 23, 2010 01:42pm

We should do what the title of this thread says.

I say we count the FT, allow the sub & continue. Its not a CE.

jdmara Tue Nov 23, 2010 01:43pm

Have a pregame...about the procedure you are going to use when a player is disqualified. This should be discussed the same way that substitutions (count players) should be discussed, everyone makes eye contact and the ball goes in play.

-Josh

Jurassic Referee Tue Nov 23, 2010 02:11pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by AHSAA_Ref (Post 702824)
Caveat #1: If he misses the first free throw? (Remember it's 1-and-1)

Blow your whistle, get the sub in, talk to your partner after the game.

grunewar Tue Nov 23, 2010 02:52pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by AHSAA_Ref (Post 702821)
What do you do?

Along with what's already been said - slow down!

What's the hurry? The game can't go anywhere without you. If you're communicating with your partner(s) and you take your time, these situations can be avoided.

tref Tue Nov 23, 2010 02:53pm

Was this a 2 or 3 person game?

26 Year Gap Tue Nov 23, 2010 03:04pm

When you get told of a DQ, go tell a partner to tell the player and coach. If there are 2 of you, then the only one who can administer too quickly is you. If there are 3 of you, then your presence somewhere in the vicinity of both lead & center should prevent the speedy FT.

truerookie Tue Nov 23, 2010 03:16pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by AHSAA_Ref (Post 702821)
Last night (NFHS):

A23 fouls out. R reports the foul, and is notified of the 5th personal. B20 is at the line to shoot 1-and-1.
R notifies the player and A-HC. R goes to the table to start the 20-sec. clock, and U1 administers the free throw to A20. Free throw is made, but A has not replaced its player yet.

What do you do?

First, this is why the calling official should not be involved with a DQ'ed player. The non calling official should handle this like the manual states..

Second, the procedure for DQ was not followed. You notify the coach, start the replacement timer and notify the player last.

Finally, dead ball officiate.. do not put the ball back into play until your partner(s) are ready...

Raymond Tue Nov 23, 2010 03:21pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by truerookie (Post 702849)
First, this is why the calling official should not be involved with a DQ'ed player. The non calling official should handle this like the manual states..

Second, the procedure for DQ was not followed. You notify the coach, start the replacement timer and notify the player last.

Finally, dead ball officiate.. do not put the ball back into play until your partner(s) are ready...

And communicate clearly to your partner(s) that you have a disqualification. I do that before notifying the coach and, if necessary, again after notifying the player.

Bad Zebra Tue Nov 23, 2010 03:31pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdmara (Post 702826)
Have a pregame...about the procedure you are going to use when a player is disqualified. This should be discussed the same way that substitutions (count players) should be discussed, everyone makes eye contact and the ball goes in play.

-Josh

Having been burned by this exact scenario, it's ALWAYS included in my pre-game. It looks REALLY bad when the FT misses and play continues while an official is standing near the table trying to get a sub in.

AHSAA_Ref Tue Nov 23, 2010 04:05pm

Same game:

Ball OOB at baseline. T and L blow whistle. T says white, L says blue. This is L's call, but a meeting occurs and L changes the call immediately.

Note: T here is same U1 who administered the FT

tref Tue Nov 23, 2010 04:08pm

By you saying U1 Im assuming its a 3 whistle game? T blowing the OOB on endline... sounds like the U1 needs more reps!

bob jenkins Tue Nov 23, 2010 04:14pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 702823)
Blow your whistle, get the sub in, shoot the second free throw, talk to your partner after the game.

Note that the NCAA (at elast NCAAW) ruling is different -- cancel the FT, put the sub in, FT do-over.

AHSAA_Ref Tue Nov 23, 2010 04:19pm

No. This is 2-man crew. In Junior Varsity. Where both teams run fast break offenses.

I think their assignor needs more reps.

Raymond Tue Nov 23, 2010 04:33pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 702878)
Note that the NCAA (at elast NCAAW) ruling is different -- cancel the FT, put the sub in, FT do-over.

Let me check that out.

Is that based on the wording from A.R. 80 or is there an interp out there somewhere?

Quote:

(2) Since A5 and A5’s coach were not notified of the disqualification, the result of A5’s free throws (following the free throws awarded to Team B for the technical foul on A5) shall stand.

Scratch85 Tue Nov 23, 2010 05:05pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by AHSAA_Ref (Post 702824)
Caveat #1: If he misses the first free throw? (Remember it's 1-and-1)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee (Post 702828)
Blow your whistle, get the sub in, talk to your partner after the game.

If the whistle is before a rebound use AP since POI has no team control. If whistle is late and there has been a rebound go POI, ball out to team with control.

Is this correct?

bainsey Wed Nov 24, 2010 11:34pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee (Post 702828)
Blow your whistle, get the sub in, talk to your partner after the game.

To clarify, if the shot is missed, should you hold your whistle for a second or two until a team has control? That way, you wouldn't need the arrow.

KJUmp Thu Nov 25, 2010 07:36am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scratch85 (Post 702898)
If the whistle is before a rebound use AP since POI has no team control. If whistle is late and there has been a rebound go POI, ball out to team with control.

Is this correct?

To add an additional question to Scratch's question....

If going to POI once there's TC is the correct procedure, would/should we wait on the whistle if Team B had a fast break going off the miss?

Jurassic Referee Thu Nov 25, 2010 07:51am

It's our screw-up and we need to fix it. And we also don't need to compound our screw-up by penalizing a team by making them play with 4 players. As soon as you're aware that we didn't allow a proper substitution, blow your whistle and get the sub on the floor. You then have rules to determine what you have to do when you resume play. Use 'em.


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