Dishonesty
 

A fellow official and I were recently talking about the dishonest things we hear from players and coaches. I don't hear such dishonesty very often, but it tends to make me angry pretty quickly on those rare occasions. (I won't rule out the possibility that people are being more dishonest than I think.)

What are some examples of dishonest behavior (from deception to outright lies) you can share, and how do you handle such things?

Are you talking about stuff like, "I wasn't talking to you"? Or perhaps "No one has made her take out her earrings all year"? Or something more sinister?

The most dishonest comment I hear from coaches is, "He got fouled."

Players and coaches have been trying to influence us to give 'em an advantage not meant by rule since Naismith hung his first peach basket. It's just part of the game. And we have ample rules and procedures available to us to deal with their attempts. How they are handled usually depends on the line that each officials sets as to how much they'll let let the coaches/players get away with while trying to work us before doing something about it. And even though different officials might handle a similar situation completely differently, we should still judge the success of their individual method by the results. Iow, was the game kept under control and play not affected in any way?

Having said that, what any official should NEVER do when somebody is working them is to EVER get angry about it. It's our job to deal with the inevitable in a passionless, even-handed and neutral manner. Someone in the building has to be in control at all times and they pay us to be that someone. If you're losing your temper, then you ain't that "someone".

JMO.

As always, +1. Someone has to be the adult on the floor, hopefully it's the official(s).

Dealing with a coach who's pushing the line of unsporting behavior is part of the 5% of officiating that really distinguishes the great officials. No single way of addressing it is right for everyone: some will defuse the situation with humor, some will speak to the coach forthrightly and calmly, some will back the coach down with a warning.

Getting angry does not deal with coach behavior, but is a symptom of getting worked and a response that goes away once one deals properly with the behavior.

Prefer the second two choices, the first one can backfire, and backfire big.

Agreed: if I'm advising someone I'd advise against it. But as I observe quality officials, some can pull it off.

Me too

In a perfect world, coaches would realize that the officials are the only people in the entire gym who don't care who wins the game.

Except maybe for this guy.

http://hoopedia.nba.com/images/f/fe/T1_0720_donaghy.jpg

Humor!?!? No way. I would never try to do that. :cool:

Anything you'd like, Snaq. Anything from a little BS, to intelligence-insulting whoppers, to flopping, if you'd like.

As for humor over forthright and calm, I'd also opt for the latter, but doesn't that typically depend upon how well you know the coach?

I don't see much that I could really consider "dishonest." The occasional flop from a player, but that's about it; but even then it's nothing like what Jeter pulled this year.

OK,it's football, not basketball, but how about other teams faking defensive injuries on coach's orders to slow down the offense of the Oregon Ducks? There's videos all over the net. And, according to NCAA football rules, there's no penalty for it.

Seems like that scenario was named after the title of this thread.

One play from a camp game stands out to me, mostly because I lost my cool over it. A1 gets a steal and is heading the other way for an uncontested layup. B1 chases after him and grabs him from behind. Clearly an intentional foul, and I signal it as such at the spot. Coach for B intercepts me on my way to the table and says, "He was trying to play the ball."

In my mind there's trying to work an official and then there's flat out lying. I have no patience or tolerance for the latter.

So you have proof that the coaches are teaching their players to fake injuries, as opposed to players being tired and taking an extra moment to catch their breath?

I was doing a sophomore boys Christmas tournament years ago and called a a block with both shooter and offender on floor. I lost my number when reporting and asked partner who it was and he wasn't sure. I firmly asked who committed the foul, the player I suspected gave me a smug look when asked and nobody fessed up. Finally, one of his teammates disgusted by his bad sportsmanship gave him up "it was him" as he pointed him out. Time lapse, all of about 15 seconds.

Both my partner and I then initiated the 'indentify the troublemaker' and he was on the bench shortly after with a few more legitimate calls.

So a guy is walking around after the play, then takes a few steps toward his bench, gets a signal from his coach and then drops down holding his ankle. Judge Judy would tell him "Liar, liar, pants on fire". Just watch the videos on youtube and tell me they're not faking it. Some things are so obvious they must be true. The Pac10 said they can't do anything about it, not because it didn't happen, but because there's no penalty for it under the rules.

Just watched the video, didn't see any signals from the coach.

Football is the same as basketball. If a player goes down injured, they have to leave the game. There's rules in both sports fully covering the officials' duties in situations like that. And because the officials in both sports aren't doctors, we sureashell aren't qualified to judge whether a player is injured or faking it either. We let the people at the contest responsible for that duty do their job.

I'd never dream of accusing a player on the floor in a basketball game or on the field in a football game of faking an injury, no matter what I personally thought. And I've done football a few months longer than basketball. Any college official who tried to pull something like that would be back doing Saturday morning kiddie football in one heckuva hurry.

Little advice for any official....do NOT play God.

JMO

One video I saw they were playing Arizona State announcer said the temperature was over 100º. It is normal for a player to be walking around after the down and appear fine then get a crap and fall over.

Another video they were playing California. The down ends and a California player appears to be in pain and is bending over. He then looks towards the sideline and falls down. The TV announcer says something like it looks like he was struggling and the sideline told him if you're hurt just go down. Conviently if you watch the ESPN clip they only start the video when he is already looking at the sideline.

I can't believe a judge, even a fake TV judge, would say something like that but the player would end up winning the case.

This is just stupid. Did you copy that whole paragraph off of some fan site talking about how the officials were cheating?

Agree 100%. I was listening to a sports talk show that I really like, but today one of the guests said that it was the officials' fault that the players were getting away with the tactic. And my only thought was to wonder how in the world would the officials know whether or not these hulking human beings are actually injured?????

If they look injured, I treat them as if they really are injured. Unless I hear the coach say, "Ok, Jimmy, NOW. Fake an injury!!", there's nothing I can do about it.

I hate it when that happens.

Stupid? Did I ever say or imply that the officials were cheating? Do you think I look at fan sites? If you think I did either one of those things, then you're stupid. When you get even 1/100th of the number of posts I have here, then you can make statements like that.

I don't think the officials are cheating in any way and I don't think they can do much about it. With that said, it looks pretty obvious that Arizona State was doing it on purpose.

He didn't say you thought they were cheating; he was making an accusation against the website you seem to have got your info from.
And frankly, the number of posts isn't relevant here.

Actually, it is relevant, Adam. The guy's a prick and has been since he got here.

Fair enough, I guess I wasn't paying much attention to who the other guy was.

I think Mark overreacted to the comments. I think the comments were fair. then again it is just an opinion. Some people need to just relax.

Peace

Yep, what you said was stupid. It was just so obvious it must be true hahaha It seemd like this was the type crazy things you would find on some fan site but I guess you just came up with that on your own. Face it, this isn't even close to being obvious. You are being biased because you live near the school. And it sure is easy to have a lot of posts when the vast majority of them are off topc pictures and corny jokes.

Don't listen to him. He just doesn't like me because I pointed out that something he wrote regarding the NFL replay system was incorrect. He tried to change his argument instead of admitting he was wrong. I guess he doesn't forget things like that. But in another discussion on the basketball board I was standing up for him but hey, that doesn't really matter.

http://forum.officiating.com/footbal...mi-fumble.html
http://forum.officiating.com/basketb...officials.html

Yes, but he still continues to post mostly off-topic stuff.

Oh -- you meant the other guy.

Yeah -- him too.

Blood in the water. BTW - learn to spell and use proper grammar.

One knows he has a good argument on a internet forum when he as to resort to pointing out typographical errors and telling the poster to learn to spell and use proper grammar :rolleyes: Also I don't think that is the proper use of a hyphen. (Yes, I know this post was totally worthless.)

There should be a period after "grammar" and a comma after "Also". However, your last sentence is right on the money. :p

:d:d:d

Except for the fact that the period should follow the closed parenthesis.

You obviously are not the product of our current public 'education' system.

I'd have gotten smashed across the knuckles with a ruler if I had committed any one of the above noted aberrations. All three and i'd have been jacked up against the wall by Brother O'Ryanne.
More severe corrective measures were reserved for the Catholic kids.

A ruler? You are weak! The architect's scale was much more effective.

Close your parenthesis!"

The kinder, gentler JR likes that. It's much nicer than the standard "Shut up."

We'll give it a go, Gappy.