Do any of you find yourself changing your normal style of calling to match your partner(s)?

Last night I worked with an experienced older official who calls only JV and Middle School ball. He had a tendency to let the teams play more physically than I am comfortably with. I found myself ignoring a lot of contact in order to match his style and make the officating consistant on both ends. I have experienced this same thing with inexperienced officials who haven't yet learned the types of minor contact that creates an advantage-disadvantage situation.

Yes, we did switch on just about every foul, but it just doesn't seem as "professional" when one official calls it tight and one calls it loose.

I'm sure I am not the only one who has had this experience. What do any of you do in this situation?

1. Call your normal game and make your partner look good/bad.

2. Match his style to make both of you look good/bad.



INSANITY - Continuing to do what you always do and expecting different results.

This is something that should be addressed in a pre-game. I always ask a "foreign" partner how much contact they let go - especially hand checking and post play.

In situations where your partner is calling the game extremely differently to you, the ideal is to compromise and meet in the middle. Use a time out or between quarters to discuss it with your partner.

If your partner doesn't meet you in the middle, then in fairness to the players, the only option is to meet their standard of refereeing. However, this can be a real problem if your partner is letting way to much contact go, someone could gt hurt.

After thinking about, I guess there is just no easy answer :)

This will mess you up.
 

Do not call the game just to mirror your partner. This will get you in trouble as well as your partner. You have to call your game and your game only. You start trying to call a game just to mirror you partner, you might find yourself just as wrong as your partner. Instead of one bad official, there will be two bad officials on the floor (or the way they will look at it). Call the game with advantage/disadvantage in mind and leave the "tight" and "loose" terminology behind. "Tight" and "loose" is not really subscribed by the rulebook, but advantage/disadvantage is.

Now what you might do, if your partner is calling handchecking, you might be aware that certain defenders are handchecking. But it does not mean that you call it. Or if your partner is calling some fouls on screens, you might be aware of what is going on off-ball, but do not just call something because your partner is calling it. You might be calling things that are not there.

Peace

STOP !!!!
 

ranjo,
This is your sixth year it is time to develop your own game based on <u>your</u> present knowledge and experience
Do not waste your time trying to match your partner, as I did.

BIG Temptation, but BIG Mistake!
I know.

If you continue trying to match a different partner every game, you have no identity. You have only mish-mash!
I know.

If a coach sees you with three different partners and three different games, he doesn't know what to expect... you're inconsistent!
I know.

Develop your own game personality now. The sooner the better.
I know.

Yes, take tips from your partners, learn from them, but call your own game. It is not too soon! It is not too late!
I know.

Establish a starting point. Then adjust your thoughts as you learn and grow, and not because you changed partners.
I know.

Then, after you have <u>Your game</u> defined within your thoughts and philosophy,
<LI>Use it, don't lose it.
<LI>Trust it, don't rust it.
<LI>Believe it, don't leave it.
<LI>Amend it, don't pretend it.
<LI>Work it, don't shirk it.

I know!

mick

Re: STOP !!!!
 

Mick, you shootin' for the Nobel in Philosophy?

Re: Re: STOP !!!!
 

I thought he was going to the Johnny Cochran School of Law. (If the glove don't fit, you must acquit!)

Chuck

P.S. -- Is there a Nobel for Philosophy? I don't think so. :confused:

As an experience official, ask yourself why your partner is not a varsity official. Then see what calls you can and should match. Obviously, block charge should look the same. Show some intellegence in what you match. At camp a few years ago, the clinician was talking about matching your partners calls. But he was assuming good officiating from his partners, not poor. Overcoming a bad partner is one of the challenges you are now faced with. That is a different discussion. I had a rookie that if I had matched his calls we would have had a lousy night. I called everything I could in my area of the floor and some in his to cover the game. He was just to scared to blow the whistle. Blow your whistle. Call your game. Do your switching and you will get through the night. What is going to happen if an evaluator steps out of the stands after the game and ask you why you weren't calling anything? He came to see you call, not your partner and you just lost a chance to call in the state tournament. Sorry.

Thanks to all of you who replied. I suppose I knew the RIGHT answer all along, but it always helps to hear it from somebody else.

Mick - Sounds like you have been there before. What a great response! Hope its not copywrited as I plan to use it at a future board meeting.

INSANITY - Continuing to do what you always do and expecting different results.

Speaking as a non-referee, I gotta tell ya, its interesting to hear these kinds of issues from a referee's perspective.

As a coach, what I ask for from refs are consistency and fairness. If one ref is making the majority of the calls, it not only looks bad, it can also call into question those two factors. I know, I know, I'm just a howling monkey, but its true.

The points you make about using the pre-game and in-game play stoppages to discuss philosophical differences are critical to avoiding such circumstances.

I understand the points some of you make about avoiding being labeled as wishy-washy, etc. They're valid points. Just be prepared, right or wrong, for more abuse than usual if you and your partner can't come to a workable compromise.

I have to agree with Mick here on this topic. You cannot spend your entire career worrying about matching up with partners. Mind you, I am not saying not to work with your partners, but each game that you work is completely different in its own way.
Sometimes on given nights, you might be the official that is forced to make all or most of the calls because of the calls being in your primary area.
However, I do have to agree if there is contact at one end of the floor and it is being called, then contact at the other end of the floor has be called as well.
In short, develop you own game based on experience and advice from games and other officials. After a while, you will develop a rythem of what you are comfortable with and what you are not comfortable with.

John Sandlin

Coach,
Regarding your patronizing warning, we try to be prepared for every thing, every personality, every night, every game.

If you really think we aren't aware that we are judged at every whistle, then think again.

We do know we are putting it on the line every time we make a call, or no call. We don't have the luxury to say, "That's gotta be something!" We aren't allowed to guess. We have to use our eyes and not our emotion. You can stand there on the sideline second-guessing. We don't have that option.


<u>And</u>, do you honestly prefer two mediocre officials to one mediocre official and one solid official? Hmmmm.

mick

I can easily stop the abuse! :D

You know you can ask questions, make comments, etc. You move to abuse, and I'm gonna sit you down.

John,
Given the different philosophies of officials, contact may be called differently. The slight differences in officiating is part of the reason to make sure we use proper rotations.
But, when we work with the same partners regularly, the calls become more homogeneous because of all that quality *windshield time* we get driving to the game, and with the way your Association works, I would expect much more constency than most other areas. ;)
mick

Well this is why you are a coach and we are officials. ;) It is very difficult to even try to mirror a partner, when you are doing your job. If I am watching my area and doing my job, it is not uncommon for me to not have a clue what my partner called and why. If I am watching him, then I am missing what is in my area. Especially in a 3 Person game. If you want consistency, you need to worry about that from each official individually. If officials know what they are doing, you will see similar calls from each official. And you will also see times when one official is making a lot of calls. That does not mean anything is wrong, it just means that is the way the game flows.

BTW, about the abuse thing, some of us do not give a damn (lack of a better word). You can complain all you want, I will just tune you out and worry about other things. As long as you do not get personal, question my integrity or say a few choice words to me, complain all you want. I will treat you like you are not there. Because if you are upset and do not want me back, I probably passed many schools to get to your's. :D

Peace

Few coaches are able do that (recognize a given call from a given official) on a regular basis.
About all they look at are the shirts in many cases, just like we often only see colors and rarely see numbers except when we have to report them.

How many times have we officials been chastised for a made call that we never even saw?

Some coaches think they are more than they are.

So getting back to the original topic - are there things any of us do or try in order to get partners "on the same page"???? One of the things I have tried - with varying degrees of success (usually dependent on partner's experience level) is to simply ask questions during a time-out..."Hey partner, what are you seeing in the paint? Am I missing something in there?" Or "Hey, I'm really uncomfortable with the amount of contact in the paint. Are you feeling the same way?" Sometimes all it takes is getting the other official to realize there is a concern, and then they step it up...any other ideas out there???

You still have to call your own game.
 

I totally agree that you should communicate with your partner, but you still should not spend time trying to mirror your partners calls. Even if you see something in the paint, does not necessarily mean the calls should change because of it.

Peace

Yeah, dj,
During dead ball time we do those those things.

And something like, "The coach has been asking us to":

"...look for handchecking."
"...watch the grabbing."
"...call more traveling."
"...look for over-the-backs."

Also,
"I didn't see your fist. I didn't know what you had."
"Could you help me with a direction so I know where to go?"
"What did you see over there?"

With regular partners, it's much different. Sometimes a joke, a pretty face, ...most times nothing.

mick

Switching on all fouls per the manual is the best way to balance out the calls, when you have a partner that calls a game tighter or looser than you. I don't regularly work with the same partner or crew. Sometimes during a break, I might tell my crew, "We've got to tighten up a little" or "I've let a little too much contact go." On the floor, I try not to tell my partner directly that he's screwing up the game. By blaming myself, or taking joint responsibility, I hope to send a message. In the lockerroom, at halftime or after the game, I'm more direct.

I've never had a partner tell me to lighten up on my whistle. I have had them tell me to go out and get certain calls. That's fine. I take no offense. But the "veteran JV" official usually is a hopeless case.

I have had a partner over the last couple years, that everytime that I call with him, It seems that we are never on the same page. At first I tried to adjust to his game, Well those games just got uglier and uglier. So I decide to call my game the best way I knew how. I watch my primary area, called what I saw, did not try to even things up or make calls that simply weren't there. If he had 20 calls and I had none or vice versus so be it. There will partners out there that we are in complete harmony with, and then we will have partners that are not. Just call your game to the best of your ability and it will all come out in the end. I agree with the person who made the comment about the evaluator in the crowd, because that happened to me early on. I tried to mirror my partner and I got chewed up and spit out, and was told by the evaluator that you need to deal with your game!

AK ref SE

Re: You still have to call your own game.
 

I don't think I ever advocated mirroring anyone, but if a game is too physical I will certainly try to get my partner to step it up some...having said that, if one of my partners makes a call at one end, and then I have a play at the other end that looks the same, feels the same, sounds the same, smells the same, etc - for the sake of crew integrity I need to call it the same as my partner did...

I had a scrimmage last year where I called 6 fouls and my partner called none for the entire half. If I mirrored my partner, I would have called nothing. Some of my calls were in dual areas and my partner did not blow their whistle for anything except obvious out of bounds calls. My partner made a comment to me and said "I do not call the same game as you do." Ya think? I am of "the no harm no foul" ideal (not serious you get the idea). I do not just call contact as a foul. And almost every foul I called was in line with the rules (women's college, handchecking for example). But in all fairness to my partner, I had more experience than they did. But it would did not look good if I did not call anything that day. That means we would not have a single foul called the entire half.

Peace

Re: Re: You still have to call your own game.
 

I respectfully disagree. Your integrity is in more question, when you make calls just to be on the same page with your partner. Just because action happens on one end does not mean that the other action is the same. I have to make calls regardless of what my partner does. I always tell my partners in a pregame, "call what you see." That is all I can say or anyone can expect.

Peace

It is exactly because of the fact that my integrity is on the line that I need to make the effort to be "in synch" with my partners...again, I am not saying that I will make up calls, or try to mirror them if they aren't calling anything...but the integrity of myself and my partners goes right out the window when the exact same play is called in two (or more) different ways each time it happens...

Hmmmm.
 

dj,

That is sometimes a hard line to follow, especially when your partner kicks a rule.

<LI>example: a jump shot get touched hard enough to stop the release - partner calls a travel. (You won't make that call, like you said, because it ain't right)
<LI>example: a jump stop and your partner calls a travel - same ol', same ol'
<LI>example: dribbler gets lightly measured once, partner calls a handcheck - I find it hard to believe you'll follow your partner's lead.

On the level that you officiate, I would guess your partner that is screwing up better follow your lead.

mick

You will be judged alone.
 

I am sure you are a wonderful official. I have no reason to think you are not. But I feel like and assignor or evaluator will look at your situations and see "two incompetent officials" rather than just one if you try to do what your partner does. Calls are very personal. And in basketball you will be ultimately judged as individual regardless of what our partners might do. I just think you call your game, if your partner belongs he or she will show it by what they call. But then again you always need to follow your assignor and evaluators.

Peace

Re: Hmmmm.
 

Mick. I wouldn't make those same calls, obviously, because they were wrong...and I would - at the first opportunity - try to get my partners' head in the game! :) I guess I am thinking more along the lines of the close block/charge calls...if my U-1 has a close one and calls a charge, and two minutes later I have one that looks pretty much exactly the same, well then I had better have a good reason before I come out with a block call...if my partner totally kicked the first call, then no - I won't totally kick my call to keep it even...but like I said before - if it looks the same, etc., call it the same...

Question about Questions from a Coach
 

If by any strange happenstance I notice (or believe) that the refs are not consistent between themselves, is there anything I can do as a coach? For example, would I be out of line to ask one of the refs about it during halftime? For example would the following be out of line?

"I've noticed some difference in the way you two are calling certain things. Do you guys think you could talk it over?"

Would this approach be likely to offend? I know if there is some way to communicate without being confrontational, everybody is better off. On the other hand, am I better off biting my tongue and just hoping it will all even out in the end?

Re: Re: Hmmmm.
 

dj,
Now, yer screwin' with me.
I'll bet my Foxes that you'll call what you call because of what <u>you saw</u> and not what your partner thought he saw. :)
mick

In CYO, you are not necessarily getting the best refs in the world to begin with. A little talking won't hurt a thing. You can get one of two reactions. If you ask correctly you will get. "Yes coach I hear ya." If you don't then one of the officials will get upset and drop the T. Either way you are getting a point across. If you see one of the officials trying to talk with the other official, then you don't need to say anything. The first official realizes what is going on and he is trying to do something about it.

CYO Butch-
Look at it this way, at half time, you are getting your backside handed to you by the other team.....would you appreciate a ref coming over to and say......hhhmmmm it seems that you are not calling the same type of play that the other coach is calling maybe you should talk it over.....
I would in my humble opinion...bite your tongue!

AK ref SE

Re: Question about Questions from a Coach
 

Coach,
I have no problem with a coach asking anything, particularly if he saw everything clearly from his spot "on the floor?" (You remember where the box is, Coach?" ;))
If you are reasonable, you won't get a "T" 100% of the time.
mick

Rut-
I am going to disagree on one point.....we are partners out there....I believe we are judged as one(Partners)....not as individuals....however saying that.....the assignors/evaluators will look at us as individuals or should look at us as individuals.

AK ref SE

In theory yes, in practice no.
 

You are right that we are partners. But if you cannot perform as in individual, you will not stay or move up. Yes we do have to work together, but we have to be able to hold our own and do our own job. We cannot call things just because your partner call something. If he is wrong, it is not good to be wrong with him. Someone who is calling their first season in a league is not going to be given the same rope or leeway as someone that has been in the league for several years.

When I got hired in the leagues I got hired, it was not because of the crews I worked with, it was for what I could do on my own. You will ultimately be judged as an individual.

Peace

Rut-
I agree with you on being an individual...moving up....calling your game.....The point the I was trying to make.....besides the assignor/evaluator and maybe other officials...we are looked at as a crew.....the calls/no calls that are partners makes reflects on us as a crew.
JMHO

AK ref SE

AK ref SE,
I agree with that observation.
In fact, if we could pick our own partners, I would applaud the fact that it occurs.
mick


Edited out brain cramps.

[Edited by mick on Oct 10th, 2002 at 09:49 PM]

I'm a little surprised at the amount of disagreement over this post. To me this is key to having a good game - all the officials need to be in sync, and if we're not we need to adjust, somehow. Why is this not a given?

Re: Question about Questions from a Coach
 

If you asked me this I might just ask you for specific examples, so you better be prepared. Or I might just shrug my shoulders, say I don't see it that way and walk away. In either case I'll talk it over with the crew at the next dead ball, we might agree or we might just roll our eyes. Anyway, if you think you're getting the sh1tty end of the stick speak up, but don't be a jerk about it.

Dan -- I've just read straight through this whole post, and I don't see that anyone disagrees with the statement, "To have a good game, all the officials need to be in sync." It's just that we disagree how to get there and how hard to push when it isn't working.

I'm still learning to "call my own game", and am not very good at adjusting yet. But, when I am working with a less experienced partner (there are a few of these around!), I do point out the importance of working off the same page, and I keep discussing it throughout the game, if necessary. If they object, I back off some and adjust a little. If a partner tells me I'm calling too tight, I ask for some compromise -- I'll loosen up a little if you'll call the whatever a little more.

The hardest is when the partner is calling things based on emotion and is inconsistent himself. Then I just remember mick's sage words, repeated often during the season,

Get in,
Get done,
Get out!
Period.

Mmmm, maybe...maybe comments like "call your own game" "be an individual to move up", things like that stuck out to me more than to you.

Quote:

I'm still learning to "call my own game", and am not very good at adjusting yet. But, when I am working with a less experienced partner (there are a few of these around!), I do point out the importance of working off the same page, and I keep discussing it throughout the game, if necessary. If they object, I back off some and adjust a little. If a partner tells me I'm calling too tight, I ask for some compromise -- I'll loosen up a little if you'll call the whatever a little more.

Pretty much what I'm talking about, as far as I'm concerned you're doing it exactly right.

Quote:

The hardest is when the partner is calling things based on emotion and is inconsistent himself. Then I just remember mick's sage words, repeated often during the season, Get in, Get done, Get out! Period.

Oh boy, you got that right! :)

Ow, ow, ouch.

I apologize if my comments were construed as patronizing. I in no way meant them in that way.

I have very rarely been in a situation where I thought the officials weren't on the same page. On those rare occasions it has been "comforting" to see the officials talking to one another during breaks (especially when they're not pointing and gesturing at me!), and appear to be discussing game management. Shoot, they might have actually been talking about where to go for a beer after the game, but, perception makes a difference. As a coach, I appreciate the way you work together to make the game flow more smoothly.

And, I know this is a bit off-topic, but I wanted to address a comment mick made. If I got it right, I think he was saying coaches don't recognize differences in officials. To a degree he's right, because the vast majority of officials call similarly. But, we've had refs who do have "pet" calls. We've had one who is a real stickler for travel calls. The first time I had him I got into all kinds of trouble. After that, I knew what to expect, so was much more refined. Just a growler monkey!

Last, I don't think I'll ever post on the "other site". My ego couldn't take it.

Coach,
Don't give it another thought.
I'm left-handed, and I think differently. ;)
mick

Re: Re: Re: Hmmmm.
 

Yeah, but that's what makes this all so much fun!!

I'm left-handed, and I think differently. ;)
mick

[/B][/QUOTE]Got left-handed balls,too!
Does that mean you .... differently?

JR has the memory of an ELEPHANT!:D

Got left-handed balls,too!
Does that mean you .... differently?

JR has the memory of an ELEPHANT!:D [/B][/QUOTE]

I forget.

I agree with JRut on his approach a few replies. Yes in theory, we are partners/crews together. We should be evaluated that way, however generally speaking it is not always done that way. Most of the time, the evaluating process is not always correct or fair, but as officials we have to accept that and continue to work hard at each and every game that we assigned to.

John