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-   -   Endline Postioning By Lead (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/59706-endline-postioning-lead.html)

The_Rookie Fri Nov 12, 2010 04:54pm

Endline Postioning By Lead
 
Quick Question:

Does the Lead move along the endline with the movement of the ball?

Is the Lead supposed to be on the strong side(ball side)at all times?

Thanks!

Back In The Saddle Fri Nov 12, 2010 04:59pm

Yes, it's called mirroring the ball. Obviously you don't want to leave an engaged matchup just to mirror the ball, but generally you'll "yo yo" in and out (from the near lane line extended to the three point line) with the ball.

Yes, if the ball and most of the players, especially the post players are across the paint from you, then you ought to get over "ball side". They don't do this everywhere, so ask around to see if it's done in your area. And if you're inclined to go ball side as L, pre-game this with your partner. Talk about whether you're going to take the ball when you come across, or just take the post. Talk about how the crew will cover your sideline while you're ball side.

BillyMac Fri Nov 12, 2010 05:30pm

An Even Quicker Question ???
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Rookie (Post 700814)
Quick Question: Does the Lead move along the endline with the movement of the ball? Is the Lead supposed to be on the strong side(ball side)at all times?

Two person or three person? (Or one person?)

Back In The Saddle Fri Nov 12, 2010 05:40pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 700825)
Two person or three person? (Or one person?)

Good question. I assumed (and you know what happens when one assumes) two person.

BillyMac Fri Nov 12, 2010 06:02pm

Felix Knows ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle (Post 700828)
You know what happens when one assumes.

YouTube - Odd Couple - "My Strife in Court" (Assume Scene)

The_Rookie Fri Nov 12, 2010 07:00pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 700825)
Two person or three person? (Or one person?)


Sorry..Yes 2 man crew

just another ref Fri Nov 12, 2010 09:16pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Rookie (Post 700814)
Quick Question:

Does the Lead move along the endline with the movement of the ball?

yes

Quote:

Is the Lead supposed to be on the strong side(ball side)at all times?


no

You have a sideline to cover. At all costs, be in a position to make a call there when necessary.

Welpe Fri Nov 12, 2010 09:55pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 700843)
You have a sideline to cover. At all costs, be in a position to make a call there when necessary.

Are ball-side mechanics not used in your area for two-whistle mechanics?

Here, we are encouraged to go ball-side when the situation dictates.

just another ref Fri Nov 12, 2010 10:18pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Rookie (Post 700814)
Is the Lead supposed to be on the strong side(ball side)at all times?

Thanks!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welpe (Post 700847)
Are ball-side mechanics not used in your area for two-whistle mechanics?

Here, we are encouraged to go ball-side when the situation dictates.

Does it dictate to be on the strong side at all times?

Welpe Fri Nov 12, 2010 10:21pm

I took your "at all costs" comment to mean avoid using it at all costs.

just another ref Fri Nov 12, 2010 10:46pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welpe (Post 700850)
I took your "at all costs" comment to mean avoid using it at all costs.

What I meant was, if you do go ball side, you must be prepared to get back to your sideline in time to make a call there.

tomegun Fri Nov 12, 2010 11:53pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 700852)
What I meant was, if you do go ball side, you must be prepared to get back to your sideline in time to make a call there.

Or the Trail can make sure not to come down too deep and gets a big picture to watch the weak side.

In your area does the Lead routinely make calls across the paint?

just another ref Sat Nov 13, 2010 12:05am

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomegun (Post 700854)

In your area does the Lead routinely make calls across the paint?

I wouldn't say routinely, but it happens on occasion.

tomegun Sat Nov 13, 2010 12:19am

Quote:

Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 700856)
I wouldn't say routinely, but it happens on occasion.

How many times a game would "on occasion" be?

just another ref Sat Nov 13, 2010 12:31am

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomegun (Post 700858)
How many times a game would "on occasion" be?

Not something I keep track of.

I was thinking more like a few times a year.

BktBallRef Sat Nov 13, 2010 04:56am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle (Post 700819)
Yes, it's called mirroring the ball. Obviously you don't want to leave an engaged matchup just to mirror the ball, but generally you'll "yo yo" in and out (from the near lane line extended to the three point line) with the ball.

Yes, if the ball and most of the players, especially the post players are across the paint from you, then you ought to get over "ball side". They don't do this everywhere, so ask around to see if it's done in your area.

We're sure don't do that here. We would close down to the FT lane line on the L's side but rarely would we go across.

Adam Sat Nov 13, 2010 09:40am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BktBallRef (Post 700864)
We're sure don't do that here. We would close down to the FT lane line on the L's side but rarely would we go across.

We do here, but we have to be prepared to "hustle" back if the ball squirts behind us. The rule of thumb here is if you'd go in three, you should go in two.

Adam Sat Nov 13, 2010 09:52am

Quote:

Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 700843)
You have a sideline to cover. At all costs, be in a position to make a call there when necessary.

Disagree with "at all costs" here. If that were the case, you'd never cross over at all. Simply by crossing over, you're exposing the sideline to weird stuff happening.

As a wise official told me once, with two-whistle, it's about sacrifice. You have to give up something (a 1% play) to get something (a good view on 80% of the plays).

CMHCoachNRef Sat Nov 13, 2010 10:02am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 700868)
We do here, but we have to be prepared to "hustle" back if the ball squirts behind us. The rule of thumb here is if you'd go in three, you should go in two.

Very much different in the Buckeye State. Much more similar to NC. In 2-man, the lead virtually always stays "home" his/her side of the floor. The exception is if there are NO PLAYERS on the lead's side of the floor, they lead can cross the lane to get a better view. If there are players (more than one as a single player can't cause a whole lot of trouble on his/her own), on the lead side, they stay home on their side of the floor. This is particularly true if either of the players is close to the sideline -- as this sideline is the lead's responsibility. Per the Officials Manual, there are times that the lead should, indeed, cross to the trail's side.

Until a couple years ago, the lead would NEVER cross the lane. Many to most of the experienced referees still referee that way. But, things are slowly changing.

Adam Sat Nov 13, 2010 10:08am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 700868)
We do here, but we have to be prepared to "hustle" back if the ball squirts behind us. The rule of thumb here is if you'd go in three, you should go in two.

this might be an exaggeration. I'd change that to anytime the ball settles into the post on the opposite side, you cross over.

BillyMac Sat Nov 13, 2010 11:58am

IAABO Mechanics ...
 
To improve coverage, Lead may move to ballside. Lead shall not move to ballside during a try for goal or a drive to basket.

Camron Rust Sat Nov 13, 2010 12:14pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 700871)
this might be an exaggeration. I'd change that to anytime the ball settles into the post on the opposite side, you cross over.

I'd say that if you wait until the ball settles in the post, you'll often be too late to do any good by crossing over. When I see the post forming before the ball is dumped into the post and with the ball on the opposite wing, I go. I want to be there when the ball gets there. From the far wing, it is not going to get skipped to the opposite post, particularly if there is no one there. A skip to the opposite wing can occur but that is not nearly as common nor is it likely to need immediate coverage.

Back In The Saddle Mon Nov 15, 2010 11:32am

From what I have been able to learn from experience, but mostly from talking to others, this mechanic is definitely a "by regional adoption" one. There are even variations within my state. The area where I officiated the past few years doesn't use it very much, but the area I'm going to be working in this season supposedly uses it much more.

IREFU2 Mon Nov 15, 2010 11:42am

Quote:

Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 700843)
yes




no

You have a sideline to cover. At all costs, be in a position to make a call there when necessary.

Um, in some associations they do this in two man........so you no should be possibly, not always!

Back In The Saddle Mon Nov 15, 2010 11:46am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 700869)
As a wise official told me once, with two-whistle, it's about sacrifice. You have to give up something (a 1% play) to get something (a good view on 80% of the plays).

I totally agree. Two whistle is a game of trade-offs. And a wise official once told me, "If you have to choose between covering two potential plays, choose the play that will hurt you the most if you miss it."

tref Mon Nov 15, 2010 11:53am

An official once told me, if they want the L strong-side, tell 'em to stop being cheap & pay for the frickin 3rd!

Adam Mon Nov 15, 2010 12:25pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by tref (Post 701048)
An official once told me, if they want the L strong-side, tell 'em to stop being cheap & pay for the frickin 3rd!

I like the though process, but if your goal is to give the best possible game to the players, politics and union negotiations won't come into play. :D

tref Mon Nov 15, 2010 12:29pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 701055)
I like the though process, but if your goal is to give the best possible game to the players, politics and union negotiations won't come into play. :D

Absolutely! But I was really told that during the pregame & I thought I was the R. :D

Adam Mon Nov 15, 2010 12:32pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by tref (Post 701056)
Absolutely! But I was really told that during the pregame & I thought I was the R. :D

LOL. Wow.


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