Revisiting 1972 Olympics final
 

I took some effort to investigate events of the subject. Collected different materials, including videos, interviews, FIBA rules of 1972.
I put the results to last3seconds.com.
Anyone interested, welcome. Comments are very appreciated, especially if you find any mistakes or wrong conclusions.

My comment?

you really, really need to get over it. :)

My comments?

1) Awful grammar.
2) Awful writing.
3) You really, really need to get over it.

Have someone edit your writing.

Chalk Hawk: I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that English is not iliasbay's native language. But what he/she wrote is about 10,000 times more coherent than any stab most of us would make at writing it up in Russian or whatevertheheckitis his native language is.

Sounds like ilias had an itch to scratch and tried to satisfy it with some sort of research effort. Knock yourself out, ilias.

Saw a fascinating documentary-type piece on this game done by Bob Costas or somebody like that a number of years ago, giving the Russians' perspective. Remember their arguments for being rightful winners sounded fairly reasonable, or at least understandable. A real eye-opener.

Interesting stuff. I was flabbergasted by the fact the timer at the Gold Medal Game of the Olympics were supposedly inexperienced.

Omg
 

Handful of replies, but almost nothing about the matter!
I know that my English is far from being perfect, but I hoped natives would understand what I have written.
I guess that my investigation is too detailed to become interesting to the public.

You're right. According to his youtube page, he's Canadian, eh.

Or disjointed.

We're not the public, we're basketball officials. ;)

I wish he'd start a website about that missed travel call in the 1936 Olympics. Now that was a big deal. :p

Well, that and the fact that your topic is 38 years old, has been done to death, and just isn't really that interesting to anyone anymore. And you can also take into effect that you posted it on a web site devoted to officiating and officials. The officials in that game didn't make the final decision. They simply followed the directives of the FIBA rep.

Even basketball officials can make an effort and become a public, for a moment. :)

Can. Probably not likely to. But definitely can. ;)

That's exactly why I posted it here. I had a hope that some of officials would go through the articles and, possibly, find weak spots in my argumentation.

The weak spot in your argument is that the official followed the rules of the game that were in effect.

Here's a question. Do we take direction from our superiors like this during a game? If I'm calling a state championship game :rolleyes: and the state supervisor of officials takes exception to the way I did something, he doesn't have the authority under NFHS rules to make any adjustment then, does he? No matter how wrong I may be, it's still my game, my call, isn't it? Is this not the case in FIBA in general, or the olympics in particular?

What about the missed shot clock violation that allowed Ethopia to defeat Albania in the 1924 Olympics. :D

MTD, Sr.

Actually, these two are next in my schedule. :D

I'll jump in the fray. Always good to look at things from history, lest we forget.
I think that there is no way to UNDERSTATE the involvement of the FIBA Director Mr Jones. This entire situation could have been resolved by a more proactive approach to this game:
1. Have an experienced timer. This is inexcusable and not the fault of the officials.
2. Have someone/s at the table who speak the language of the referees and the teams playing, this was not the case during the game. Neither official spoke English and if memory serves could not understand each others language. So now you have 2 officials on a game who can not communicate with each other let alone one of the competitors.
3. After the first error by the clock operator, make sure that everything is squared away before the ballis put into play the second time. He already inserted himself into the game, he might as well make sure things were perfect.

General thoughts on some of your conclusions:
1. You cant take a 12 second snippet of Jones and Korkia and make a statement about what happened. What happened prior to this event? Was Korkia playing "dirty" prior to that and Jones finally had enough? Was Jones just being a thug? Can't tell by this 12 seconds, which IMO takes away some credibility for this argument
2. A lot of your arguments seem to be "2 Wrongs make a right". 2 wrongs are 2 wrongs.
3. I think you under estimate the effect that moving McMillen off the line made. Edeshko was able to make a quasi running throw the length of the court. Had McMillen been allowed to stay where he was Edeshko would have had to drop further back to throw the ball over McMillen. Ask Rick Pitino about the advantages of guarding the player throwing the ball in bounds.
4. Whether Edshko's foot was on the line is still open for debate. Again, had McMillen been allowed to be in front of him this wouldn't be an issue
5. This is what can happen when you try to make things "fair" whether the rules support them or not.

Always a good topic for discussion. People can disagree but the fact remains that the USSR has the gold and we don't from that one. Also like ANY game that comes down to the wire, we have a tendendcy to forget about what happened the ENTIRE game, which IMO makes the last 3 seconds in THIS game more into perspective.

I think that, at that time, it was within the authority of the FIBA rep to do exactly what was done.

Cannot disagree on any of these.

That's a good point. Maybe I should review the game from the beginning.

Cannot argue on that. Could you be more specific?

Well, our disagreement is only on the level of significance of the McMillen's removal from his position. Chances to score were minimal in either of situations.

In HBO's "3 seconds from Gold" they showed that there was a small gap between Edeshko's foot and the base line.

Completely agree.

Not according to the rules. Article 17.Duties and Powers of referee, last paragraph:
And I could not find anything in the rules about FIBA representative's power.

The Referee magazine article will disprove your thoeries.

Boy was Göring PO'd...

The magazine is on it's way, I'm waiting...

Hindsight is always 20/20, although sometimes myopically so. What's done is done, and all the rehashing in the world isn't going to change it.

I was actually in Munich for these games - not for basketball though, I was a member of the support staff for a team in another sport. In all honesty, there were other things that occurred that pretty much made things like what's being discussed here pretty insignificant, at least to those who were there - and that's all I have to say on the matter.

Amen, Tim. Absolutely no comparison. Anybody who watched that unfold on TV will never, ever forget the scenes portrayed. Nobody was really thinking of any sport, let alone basketball which wasn't even a global favorite at that time.

Do you have a copy of the 1972 FIBA rules, regulations and constitution? If you don't, your research is meaningless.

You might want to ask the PA refs who were TOLD during the game that they would not disqualify the players who came off the bench during a fight in a state tournament game.

Yes, I do. You can find rules of 1972 in my site.

You have the game rules but not the organizational bylaws, constitution, rules, etc.

RM article review
 

Just a follow-up.
I received and reviewed the article from "Referee Magazine" that some referred to as an ultimate source of truth about that game.
You can find my review here.
Comments are welcome.