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zac Sun Oct 06, 2002 07:27pm

Can't find anything in the NFHS rules that would clarify question #95. Can A1 wear a skirt in place of pants as her uniform?

dragonref Sun Oct 06, 2002 07:45pm

Rule 3-5-15
 
A team jersey designed to be worn inside the pants/skirt shall be tucked inside the pants/skirt and the pants/skirt shall be above the hips and worn properly.

So the answer would be True.


PAULK1 Sun Oct 06, 2002 07:48pm

The closest thing I could find was Casebook 3.5.5 sit B.(2001-02)(I still don't have my new books yet)
while pants don't have to be shorts I don't think they can be skirts.

PAULK1 Sun Oct 06, 2002 07:52pm

"A team jersey designed to be worn inside the "pants/skirt"shall be tucked inside the "pants/skirt" and the "pants/skirt" shall be above the hips and worn properly."

Is this a change the 01-02 3-4-15 says only pants

BktBallRef Sun Oct 06, 2002 08:34pm

Yes, it's a change.

Marty Rogers Sun Oct 06, 2002 08:52pm

A1 should consider cheerleading.

dblref Mon Oct 07, 2002 05:37am

Quote:

Originally posted by Marty Rogers
A1 should consider cheerleading.
Mot necessarily, it could be a religious thing. I did a couple of private schools last year and at one of them, most of the girls wore long pants and head covers (it was a middle eastern nationality school).

zac Mon Oct 07, 2002 12:25pm

What if only 1 girl wore a skirt and the rest of the team wore shorts??? Would this be OK by the rules?

Jurassic Referee Mon Oct 07, 2002 02:24pm

In this year's casebook(2002-2003), 3.5.5B states it is legal to wear a skirt instead of shorts for religious reasons. The exact ruling is "NFHS basketball uniform rules do not require that the uniform pants be shorts.However,undergarments or tights may not be worn which extend below the pants,therefore wearing tights below the uniform shorts would be illegal.The player could wear long pants or a skirt as the uniform bottom and be in compliance."

That should clear it up.

Now if a guy wears a skirt...

BktBallRef Mon Oct 07, 2002 10:30pm

...he would be Scottish!! :D

rainmaker Tue Oct 08, 2002 09:47am

Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Now if a guy wears a skirt...
If it's for religious reasons, you can't say a thing!

Jurassic Referee Tue Oct 08, 2002 10:04am

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker
Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Now if a guy wears a skirt...
If it's for religious reasons, you can't say a thing!

I actually posted that for a reason,Juulie,and I'm glad you replied.
In the case of headwear for a religious reason,CB play 3.5SitA says that the state association MAY approve it under proper documentation as in R3-5-2Exception1.It doesn't mention skirts.Does this mean that anyone wearing a skirt on the floor should have the approval of the state governing body,the same as headwear,before you allow it?

rainmaker Tue Oct 08, 2002 10:09am

Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker
Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Now if a guy wears a skirt...
If it's for religious reasons, you can't say a thing!

I actually posted that for a reason,Juulie,and I'm glad you replied.
In the case of headwear for a religious reason,CB play 3.5SitA says that the state association MAY approve it under proper documentation as in R3-5-2Exception1.It doesn't mention skirts.Does this mean that anyone wearing a skirt on the floor should have the approval of the state governing body,the same as headwear,before you allow it?

I was wondering about this, too. But personally, if I see a guy in a skirt, I'm not going to be inclined to argue about it. He's going to have enough other "stuff" to deal with!

bob jenkins Tue Oct 08, 2002 11:03am

Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Does this mean that anyone wearing a skirt on the floor should have the approval of the state governing body,the same as headwear,before you allow it?
No. THere are few restrictions on what need be worn other than the jersey.

ANyone can wear pants or a skirt or shorts.

Jurassic Referee Tue Oct 08, 2002 12:07pm

Quote:

Originally posted by bob jenkins
Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Does this mean that anyone wearing a skirt on the floor should have the approval of the state governing body,the same as headwear,before you allow it?
No. THere are few restrictions on what need be worn other than the jersey.

ANyone can wear pants or a skirt or shorts.

Agree,Bob. Now let me run this by you. How about track pants with large pockets? Legal or not?

bob jenkins Tue Oct 08, 2002 04:28pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Quote:

Originally posted by bob jenkins
Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Does this mean that anyone wearing a skirt on the floor should have the approval of the state governing body,the same as headwear,before you allow it?
No. THere are few restrictions on what need be worn other than the jersey.

ANyone can wear pants or a skirt or shorts.

Agree,Bob. Now let me run this by you. How about track pants with large pockets? Legal or not?

That depends -- are you deeming the "large pockets" to be unsafe or giving the person an advantage?


Jurassic Referee Tue Oct 08, 2002 06:10pm

Quote:

Originally posted by bob jenkins
[/B]
Agree,Bob. Now let me run this by you. How about track pants with large pockets? Legal or not? [/B][/QUOTE]

That depends -- are you deeming the "large pockets" to be unsafe or giving the person an advantage?

[/B][/QUOTE]The pockets are large enough that it would be possible to catch an opponent's hand in 'em if they brushed by.Would you deem them unsafe,and refuse permission for a player to wear them(even if used for religious purposes)?

I honestly can't think of any way that there could be a player advantage to large pockets-unless they were big enough to pull the "hiddenball" trick.:D

Tim Roden Tue Oct 08, 2002 08:37pm

As far as religious articles, this consist of headwear and jewelry. All jewelry must be taped. In our case, the item must be on file with the state. I would allow the kid to play with it and then the next day check with the state to see if something is actully on file. If it is, we are good to go, if not, the state can step in a deal with the problem.

As far as skirts go. There are many religious groups from various Brethern, Baptist, Penticostal and other sects who would require skirts to be worn by the girls. Not the boys. So this had been added as an editorial change to the rule book.


JRutledge Tue Oct 08, 2002 09:33pm

Jewish headwear.
 
The IHSA told us to allow Jewish players wearing those things on the heads that men wear (I am so sorry, I do not know the name) with pins to keep them in place. Officials were told them to allow this with a letter from the state. There are some very big Jewish communities around here and this is something we have to deal with. I personally have never done a game with this, but I might with one of the teams I have this year.

Peace

rainmaker Wed Oct 09, 2002 08:40am

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Quote:

[i]]The pockets are large enough that it would be possible to catch an opponent's hand in 'em if they brushed by. Would you deem them unsafe...
How about taping them shut?

Rut, how about taping the yarmulke (little head thing for Jewish boys) on instead of bobbypins?

After a summer of watching the Red/Green Show instead of working games, I'm thinking every ref should carry a roll of duct tape in their bag!

bob jenkins Wed Oct 09, 2002 11:01am

Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
The pockets are large enough that it would be possible to catch an opponent's hand in 'em if they brushed by.Would you deem them unsafe,and refuse permission for a player to wear them(even if used for religious purposes)?


Would I? Probably not.

But if YOU deem them unsafe, then you can refuse to allow the player to wear them.

That was the point of my question -- it's official's judgment as outlined in some case in 3.5 (I think -- I'm without my books at the moment)

Just because it's a religion thing (praying to the God of Big Pockets?) doesn't mean a player can wear unsafe clothing, etc.


Camron Rust Wed Oct 09, 2002 11:54am

Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Agree,Bob. Now let me run this by you. How about track pants with large pockets? Legal or not?
Quote:

Originally posted by bob jenkins
That depends -- are you deeming the "large pockets" to be unsafe or giving the person an advantage?
Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
The pockets are large enough that it would be possible to catch an opponent's hand in 'em if they brushed by.Would you deem them unsafe,and refuse permission for a player to wear them(even if used for religious purposes)?

I think not. Do we deem the collar or arm opening of the shirt unsafe?

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker

How about taping them shut?


Do we tape the arm/neck holes shut?

I don't think that the pockets are anymore of a hazard than the shirt's openings or just a fold in the shirt or shorts/pants.

Jurassic Referee Wed Oct 09, 2002 01:11pm

I asked the questions because pretty well the exact same situation came up in the first game that a local girl's frosh team played last year.The young R doing the game called me at home to check the ruling.There were 2 girls on the team from the Middle East/India area.Because of religious reasons,the girls wore long-sleeved sweatshirts under the team shirt(same color),and track pants under the uniform shorts(same color).The track pants had rather large pockets on them.I told the R:
1)The long-sleeved sweatshirts were OK.
2)They could wear the track pants,but had to remove the uniform shorts to do so.
3)It was up to the R whether the pockets could maybe be a hazard,but he should rule on the lenient side,if possible,and let the kids play.
I also talked to the head coach and asked her to provide our association with a letter for our files saying that the track pants were necessary for religious reasons,and also suggested to her that she try to dig up a coupla pair of pants for the girls with smaller or no pockets.From then on,they both played in pants with no pockets.
The girls are both playing JV ball this year,and are still dressed the same.


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