Mechanics you use
 

Basic question. What mechanics does your states use? Do you use NF mechanics or some other variation (like NCAA)?

Peace

WA State uses NF mechanics. It is a very strong emphasis at the State tournaments that only NF mechanics are to be used, and officials are evaluated down if they use non-NF mechanics.

Joey, down the road at Precision Auto does a great job. He used to work at the dealership but now owns his shop. Great work.
:D

KS, MI, MO use NFHS mechanics and it's a point of emphasis in the pre-season meetings.

TN uses NFHS mechanics and it's a point of emphasis in the pre-season meetings.

NFHS with some state variations.

VA = NFHS Rules.

One thing I personally am dissappointed in this year is the "Online State Rules Clinic."

We have a mandatory rules clinic annually that we must attend to be certified, where we discuss the previous yr, this yr's POE's and rule changes, have a Q&A, etc.

While the clinic was informitive and nice, for me it was a good excuse to get together "one time a year" with a great many fellow officials from my and other Associations, to BS and catch up, as well as buy my annual gear from the local Officials Choice guy. It was a hassle for many though as there weren't that many clinics and it's a pretty big state.

Alas, in VA, as is the Exam now, this has gone electronic and now we just logon and watch some slides......ho hum. :(

Just curious - what are the variations and do you know the reasoning behind using them? Thanks.

I will answer too
 

The IHSA does not use the NF Manual at all. The book is never sent out and we have not received one in any sport in probably 4 or 5 years now. That being said we do use many of the "mechanics" the NF uses, but there are many little differences we have been told are not an option or we must do. For example we do not have the option to hand the ball to the thrower on the end line, where as I believe that is an option in the NF mechanics. We also can only hand the ball to the thrower on the sideline when there is no pressure. We have a lot of little things that make no difference we do not use. And when the NF changes something we may not adopt it at all, but that does not mean they do not look overall like the NF mechanics.

This is not just in basketball, this is in all sports. I know in football and baseball you would be wasting your time if you tried to use the NF mechanics at all as there are several philosophical differences and positioning differences.

We have a new person over the official's department and this might change in the future, but based on what I know so far that is not the case. I was curious and still curious as to what others do as this constantly comes up here in conversation.

Peace

Really? I like it being online. How many times do I have to hear JS go over the dimensions of what legal piping is on a uniform!! Plus, we have our local organizational meetings so we all get together then. Now if we held the meetings at a nice resort in VB or Williamsburg, made it a weekend with golfing etc, THEN I would miss it!!

Mark-

For two person mechanics, off of the top of my head:

* Officials switch on a foul only when the lead calls a shooting foul. The calling official goes table side (this was done here before NFHS adopted it).

* Positioning of officials on timeouts. We use the old method where officials stand at the top of the three point arc for 30 second timeouts and on the block for full time outs.

* A recommended mechanic here during pre-game is to blow the whistle when the officials enter the gym in order to prevent any shenanigans during warm ups.

I don't think there are any other differences. Hopefully another Texan can fill in anything I missed.

As far as to why, I'm sure there are some reasons but I haven't been told anything. Texas likes to do things differently. :D

08-09 Texas exceptions
 

These are the exceptions from 08-09. I don't know about newer ones or what may have resulted after the UIL/TASO bug-tussle:

2008-09 TASO-BASKETBALL EXCEPTIONS TO NATIONAL FEDERATION MECHANICS

• SIX-FOOT COACHING BOX CENTERED ON EITHER THE FIRST OR SECOND SEAT NEAREST THE DIVISION LINE

• FOUL REPORTING AREA: CLEAR PLAYERS AND USE THREE POINT LINE AS A GUIDE (2 & 3 PERSON MECHANICS)

• LEAD WILL ADMINISTER SIDELINE THROW-INS BELOW THE FREE THROW LINE EXTENDED (2-PERSON MECHANICS)

• SWITCH ONLY ON SHOOTING FOULS AND CALLING OFFICIAL WILL STAY TABLE SIDE (2-PERSON MECHANICS)

• THREE-PERSON MECHANICS

LEAD MAY MOVE ALONG ENDLINE TO MAINTAIN BETTER COVERAGE IF GAME CLOCK IS UNDER 30 SECONDS IN EITHER HALF OR OVERTIME. THIS MOVEMENT BY LEAD DOES NOT INITIATE A ROTATION.

I believe the NF has been doing this for some time. Do not get my lying when this was changed, but before 08-09 I am almost sure of that.

That was a NF change last year. We do this as well.

Peace

New Jersey uses IAABO adnd Pennsylvania uses NF.

How do IHSA officials keep track of the current set of approved mechanics? For example, for a new official is there a written reference? If so, I'd like to take a look.

It is online. They have access to the information on their personal web pages as does every other licensed official. The same stuff the clinicians have access to teach. But like I have said before everything is not in a book. Many officials do all kinds of things that were never stated in the book in the first place. So young officials do what they always do, listen to those that are teaching and have been around the block.

Peace

In two man, we are to switch on all non-shooting fouls. For shooting fouls, calling official is to stay table side.

Where is this?

But Joyce does have some pretty funny one-liners thrown in to the "obvious" rules though:D

i do hope the vendors get out to at least one of our association meetings.

2009-2011 Officials Manual, 2.4.2 E1 and 2

E. Switching:
1. Officials should switch positions on all non-shooting fouls.
2. For shooting fouls, the calling official reports the foul to table, then
remains table side at Trail. The calling official has the option of going
to Lead (opposite table) to avoid a confrontational situation with
coach/bench, i.e. after a technical foul or disqualifying foul. The practice
should rarely be used and should be discussed thoroughly in the
pregame conference.

NY we still go opposite from the table in boys on foul calls and use NCAA women's rules with some modifications in girls. Also 35 and 30 second shot clocks.

So your "we" applies to those that adhere strictly to the NFHS mechanics. I was assuming you were talking about your particular location.

I'm in Minnesota. Can't think of any NFHS mechanics differences off top of my head. But we do modify a couple rules. We have 18 minute halfs, and uniforms are white for visitor, color for home.

I'll miss Joyce's performance. She's a great guy!

As to the live meeting, you'll only have 3 chances:
Sunday, Oct. 17, 2010 6:00 P.M. Hanover High School, Mechanicsville

Saturday, Oct. 30, 2010 TBA
Loudoun County High School, Leesburg

Saturday, Nov. 6, 2010 TBA
James Monroe High School, Fredericksburg

Does not compute.

Land Of Steady Habits ...
 

Connecticut: IAABO mechanics with some "special" Connecticut "only" modifications:
Point to floor for two-point field goal try when shooter has foot touching three point line.
Team members are not allowed to congregate at midcourt during introductions. Officials will direct players to free throw line area in front of respective benches.
Coaching Box must be marked. If home coach and/or home management refuse to designate coaching box with tape, the home team will not use a coaching box for that game. However, the visiting team will be allowed a coaching box. Notify Board Secretary, or Commissioner the next day.
Captains-Head Coaches-Officials pre-game meeting should occur from 5 to 10 minutes prior to start of game. If the head coach refuses to attend the meeting, notify Board Secretary or Commissioner, who will notify the school Athletic Director and CIAC.

I Know A Guy ...
 

I found Joyce quite entertaining and informative at the same time. I really thought she did a good job.

I'll certainly miss her annual slides and discussion comparing T's and ejections by sport and talking about jacka$$ coaches and players. Always my favorite part. :p

The great thing about that is when you KNOW that one of the coaches who got ejected is sitting in the room!!!
Joyce did a great job. It seems like most of the time is spent going over what is or is not proper uniform etc. There were usually some great questions: So if I get a T and I have to sit the rest of the game not just a quarter/ Do I chose the seat or can I change seats like after time outs and stuff? (Actual question)

HTBT, but trust me...

[QUOTE=Welpe;693449]Does not compute.[/QU

HTBT...

Amen!

:eek: Your association/league actually encourages this?

It's used in several areas. Dunking is "allowed" until the officials arrive. To avoid having the officials make a tough decision on seeing the end of a dunk just as they "turn the corner" into the gym, the officials blow a whistle, wait a beat and then go on the court.

We were encouraged in our association to do this as well.

Well said, Bob.

I just work here. That's what they tell us they expect, that's what I do. I don't mind it as it is preventative in nature, especially for those 7th Grade girl's games that have a tendency to turn into dunk contests. (Channeling my inner Padgett)

so just as you walk onto the floor you just call attention to yourself and "announce" your arrival by blowing the whistle? that seems a bit odd! but hey if in rome right?! ;)

We train our officials exactly the opposite. We tell them to simply walk out on the court. And if they see someone dunking while doing so, immediately call the technical foul. We also tell the coaches in a pre-season meeting that it will be done that way. We don't think it's a tough decision; we think it's a no-brainer. See a dunk..call a dunk. If you're not sure that it actually was a dunk though when you're walking in, don't call it(which holds true for the entire warm-up).

And heaven help the official who tries to pretend that they didn't see an obvious dunk.

The rationale is that the rule has been in the book for umpty-ump years, and everybody in the gym knows that.

Nothing the matter imo with other areas handling it differently though, as long as they are consistent. At least, they're not ignoring dunks during the warm-up.

I am not a fan of that which is why I do not do it. What I will do is not come out looking for such things either. If we see it we call it. Most of the time I have to tell kids to stay off the rim because they are close instead of having to call something at all. I am just trying to start the game with a jump ball, not penalize a kid for something iffy. Then again that is me and it has worked that way for years.

Peace

But what is a dunk? Sure we all know the 2 handed rim rocker with the player swinging from the rim is a dunk. But what about the 'finger roll' dunk? You know the kid who lays the ball over the front of the rim, then tries to grab the rim so people THINK he dunked?? Or what if the player is above the rim and as he drops it down into the basket, his hand/wrists bump into the rim but they do not grasp it???
Ok, I dont see this much on the NCAA W side, and I can neither confirm not deny personally participating in ANY of the above posted scenarios!:D

See NFHS rule 4-16. The player has or attempt to drive, force or push the ball down. That's all you need to know. Judgment call. Any doubt, don't call it. Simply dropping the ball down has never been a "T".

Grabbing the ring is a technical foul also. Touching the ring isn't unless you feel that the player is doing so deliberately to vibrate the basket/backboard and put on a show. Handle with care.

Yes yes, but is it a DUNK?!?! Ground bound hoopsters the world around are dying to know!!

One other mechanic used in Texas is no long switches in the backcourt. If Old lead going to new trail calls a foul in the backcourt, he/she stays there and administers the throw-in, if not in the bonus.

This is why I tell them to knock that off when they are putting the ball in the hole that way. I just do not want someone to forget or get up their and feel they need to hang on the rim for any reason.

Peace

Thanks Frank.

I'm with you on this. PLAYERS know what a dunk is, WE know what a dunk is, so long as the dunk is not a "rim rocker" then I would not take notice. Common sense stuff imo

Are you serious?

If so, what part of "Judgment call. Any doubt, don't call it. Simply dropping the ball down has never been a 'T'" is confusing you?

You are just avoiding the question because you don't know the answer!;)

Well, I realize that you don't see many dunks in those D3 womens games that you do. And I also realize that good boys high school varsity teams plays in the air a heckuva lot more than those womens teams also. But if you didn't know that dropping the ball down at any level isn't a dunk, or what comprises a "dunk", then I suggest you talk to some people in your area that can explain to you exactly what a "dunk" is and what to look for.

Good luck.

Not sure what a dunk is? Try http://forum.officiating.com/basketb...fine-dunk.html

I know what MY definition of a dunk is, I was just soliciting opinions from others what OTHERS definition of a dunk is. There is not one playground, open gym or pick up game where they would say a "finger roll dunk" is actually a dunk!!! (Much to the disappointment of the leaping challenged) Let alone just touching the rim!
Obviously the irony escaped you. I would have thought the 'ground bound' players line would have been a tell, but this is what you get when you can't use blue font!!
Since you have no idea WHAT level of women's basketball, let alone HS I work, , I can only assume you were not disparaging women's basketball. Knowing what a stickler for strict rules interpretation you are, I think it is safe to say you would not want to run "afoul" of Title IX legislation and would be equally disparaging of Men's D3 basketball player!

"It depends on what the meaning of the word dunk is." ...
 

"I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description "dunk"; and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it, and the dunk involved in this case is not that."

Apologies to Justice Potter Stewart and William Jefferson Clinton.

We have a winner!!
I thought you were going with: I won't comment on something I have no experience in!

Nope, I'd never disparage womens basketball. You? Different story. Nowayinhell you're doing high level anything with some of the nonsense you come up with.

Now that is suprising... I would have thought you knew your way around Hell better than that!

Not trying to be a jerk here, just wondering ...

What happens if you get a rim rocker during warm ups, properly penalize it, and the "offending" coach says to you, "What about the dunk THEY made 2 minutes ago? Why didn't they get a T?", referring to a non-rim rocker at the other end? Do you just not consider it a dunk unless it is a rim rocker? Or do you have a tool in your bag of useful responses to address letting a soft one go while penalizing the rim rockers?

This is my preferred approach. This is a situation where I will not go looking for trouble, though trouble occasionally insists on being found.
Again, I'm on board here. If I can talk a kid out of doing something dumb, I will try. Usually a, "Please don't make me decide if you are dunking" puts an end to anything iffy.
Though some might consider this attitude some flavor of looking for a way to not take care of business, my understanding of the purpose of the no pre-game dunk rule is to prevent damage to equipment or injury to players. As long as neither of those is an issue, I will attempt to curtail iffy behavior rather than penalize it.

That is only for iffy behavior; if it's obvious it gets the call.

Im not going to pick and choose dunks to penalize before the game. Its not that difficult to understand, if a player dunks in the warm-up its a tech. No matter which team does it.

If handled properly there will be no questions asked (unlike your scenario ;) )

For the girls, NY uses NCAA rules (with modifications) and its own 2-person version of NCAA mechanics. See

http://nysgboa.com/pdf/NYSGBOA_TwoPersonMechanics.pdf

For the boys, I believe that NY uses NF rules and mechanics, but I'm not 100% sure.

This is exactly how i view it :D

OhioHSAA and MichiganHSAA use NFHS Mechanics. And when I officiate games using NFHS Rules I use NFHS Mechanics. That said there are one or two NCAA mechanics that I use in an NFHS game; the one that comes to mind is where the L stands for the first of two and the first two of three free throws, I use the long time Women's mechanic of being next to and just behind the player in the first block.

MTD, Sr.

When In Rome ???
 

Wrong mechanic. I prefer to sit in the bleachers behind the basket with a hot mom, especially if she has some popcorn. Let the players take care of the ball between free throws. By the time these players get to high school, they know what to do with the ball.

DOH!! How could I have forgot that mechanic. :confused:

MTD, Sr.

There is an emphasis here in FL on mechanics. The signals are to be the proper NFHS signals. Pointing direction with the whole hand, not a finger or two. 60 second time out is not the rewind of the Wicked Witch of the East leg roll. That sort of thing where officials who do both college & HS have used college mechanics in HS games.