OT--I didn't like this
 

This is a Men's League Softball story, but I think no matter what sport we officiate, we can relate.

I play in a Men's 12-inch softball league, and in our game tonight, the umpire did something I never want to see again.

There was a play at first where the first baseman may or may not have had his foot on the base when the throw came from shortstop. Our runner was called out. Apparently someone said something to the umpire from the dugout, because he walked into our dugout, sat down on our bench, and yelled "Play ball guys, apparently there's a better view from in here!"

Now it's not a really competitive league, we're out there to have fun. He was really good all night long, hustled quite a bit, was generally the best ump we've had all season.

That action, though, irked me the rest of the game. I know it's just a fun league, but there is no reason, at any level of sports, do I think an official should show up one of the teams like that. A simple "That's enough guys" would have done fine, in my opinion.

As much as we want to say clever, funny things sometimes, there's a level of professionalism that I think any official should uphold. There's a way to be friendly and approachable without showing up the players.

Forget the rest of it, I'm just impressed that enough guys can be found who qualify to play in that league. :eek:

How the F are you supposed to hit a softball that's 12 inches in diameter?

Is diameter metric for circumference? :p

Well, you know 16-inch ball is usually played in Chicago for a reason

Easy, we play 16-inch ball in Wisconsin also...:)

A basketball is 9.5 inches in diameter. ;)

Just trying to find a reference point for the basketball-only folks.

But it's OK for a player to show up one of the officials? Remember, in baseball, officials don't have the same ability to penalize teams for unsportsmanlike behavior in a manner that can affect the score like in other sports . I don't think this was out of line considering it was a "fun" league. It sounds like he was just having fun.

I also umpire a "fun" co-ed softball league, six games per week every summer. There are some things you're going to do that sit right with some, but not with all. I don't know if I would go into a dugout, but that's just me.

It certainly was a weird night last night, though. In my eight years, I've had to toss someone only once. Last night, I had two ejections for cursing at me. Blame it on the full moon, I guess.

[COLOR="rgb(0, 100, 0)"]True. But he could eject the player he felt crossed a line, which was one of our better players.[/COLOR]

Let me rephrase. While it's not the most competitive league, it's still taken seriously. Like I said in the OP, there's other ways to go about doing what he did. I felt it was unnecessary to let the entire park know he was calling us out.

Are you saying you're ok with what the umpire in the OP did? :confused: "Fun" league or not, but I have a hard time seeing how this is justified at all. If the umpire was bothered enough to head into the other team's dugout, then he should of just warned or started ejecting people IMO.

Yes, I'm OK with it. Although I do not work baseball or softball (although I did work some kids ball when I was a teenager a few centuries ago), I don't see what he did as any different than when I tell a coach: "Look coach, let's trade places. You come out here on the court and call the game and I'll sit on the bench and act like a jacka$$".

lol!!!!!!!!!!!!

I agree. They are essentially the same. And without being overly judgmental, I would personally never do either one.

You're no fun. :p

I think there's a huge difference between quietly telling a coach you've had enough (however you choose to do so), and letting the whole park know what's going on.

I guess I have to agree. Letting the whole park know what's going on is much more effective (and fun). So.....next time I tell a coach that, I'll do it over the PA system. :cool:

I would say there's a vast difference between the two. One shows up the coach and makes a spectacle while the other can be done quickly and silently (and better worded) without anybody knowing the better. It's never okay for a player or coach to show us up, but I think we can't lower ourselves to that level.

+1000

Agree 114%.

Our association has a Code of Conduct that very explicitly states that officials should never engage in these wise-azz exchanges with anyone, no matter the level being played or the circumstances involved. It's quite simply a matter of professionalism. We expect a helluva lot more from our officials than we do from the coaches, players and fans.

If you have a problem with someone, deal with it calmly and professionally.

++

This line is the key to it all.

Please use metric percentages only in posts regarding FEEBLE rules, please. :p

Another FEEBLE attempt at humor.

I thought it was funny!

While helping at a camp recently, I observed a fellow evaluator pull a stunt that some have suggested they might do but one that I never thought I'd see.

There was a fan/dad giving the refs a hard time. This observer challenged him to come down and ref the game. The fan, surprisingly, took the challenge. The observer then shadowed the fan while the fan tried to ref and more or less mocked him rather than instructing or critiquing like the "real" refs.

To say the least, it was highly unprofessional on many levels.

I'd pay a small amount to see that though!

And I agree with this 116%!

A lot of the little comments that posters put on this board are so outrageously unprofessional that they could only be used in a non-association type youth league. Saying that type of thing to any HS (or higher) coach would be the end of their officiating in that association.

Ew! He didn't let the guy use his whistle, did he? :o

Agree completely but I also don't think that non-association youth leagues are a place for any of those wise-azz responses either. You might get away with using them a heckuva lot easier there but that still doesn't make them right. I think that youth rec leagues deserve the same amount of professionalism from officials as we give to the higher, more structured leagues. If these rec leagues have a behavioral problem with their participants...players, coaches, fans...then we should be working with them towards a solution. And if we run into a rec league that doesn't seem that interested in curbing their behavioral problems, well, then let 'em get their officials from some other source if they can.

There is no need to ever take any crap out on the court, but there also is a proper way for us to deal with the crap.

JMO.

Agree with this also. I was NOT trying to say it was OK...just that there is no way you could get away with that stuff in a "regular" association.

Well, if the whole park could hear the bench calling out the umpire, I don't see much of a problem. Would I do it? Doubtful, but I haven't spent an entire evening listening to a bunch of Jason Giambi never-weres crying about close calls, either.

But I'll bet you have spent entire evenings listening to a bunch of LeBron/Phil Jackson wanna-bes cry about foul calls or non-calls.

The situation is the same. No matter the sport or level, what he did was unprofessional, IMO.

One of the best features of this forum...
 

... is the proffering of suggested smart-*** comments we so dearly wish we could utter that would just be hi-larious! But alas, they simply remain only in the cranium or uttered under the breath.

No, I haven't spent entire evenings listening to cry babies. I put a stop to it quickly. The T works wonders.
You may be right, but it's also unprofessional for an official to play on a team and spend the evening complaining to the officials. I'm sorry, but while I would probably never use that particular tool, the bottom line for me is it worked. He was able to do it without tossing your teammate, too.

Ok, first let me say that I know this is not the message you intended, but it is present in your post...this is a very dangerous statement - at least in my mind. And it's why we have so many officials who simply make up their own ways of dealing with situations rather than following the proscribed rules and mechanics.

The fact that it "worked" does NOT justify unprofessional conduct from an official. The ends do not justify the means. Like it or not, we are held to a higher standard. To do things like this umpire did - or make the comments that Mr. Padgett likes to make - is contrary to the officials code of ethics that we all agree to abide by when we put on the uniform. and believe me, I have learned the hard way that - in the long run - these types of antics don't work. They will always come back to haunt you at some future time.

Amen! Wise words.

You're correct, rocky.
1. It's not what i meant to say.
2. It's what i actually did say.
3. It's unprofessional, even if I can understand the impulse.

I still stand by the fact that it's more unprofessional for an official to participate in such a contest and publicly critique the umpire. The OP didn't actually admit to such, but I'm inferring it from his post. If he did not, and only allowed his teammates to engage in such behavior, then it's slightly less unprofessional so I will slighly apologize.

The play in question was a bang-bang play at first. I was coaching 3rd base at the time and didn't have a great look either way. Couldn't tell you if our runner was safe or out.

I slightly accept your slight apology:p

:D You still didn't address my assumption directly. I'll change now, and assume that you weren't participating in chiding the official; at least on that particular play.

I'm a little testy about this subject this summer due to a situation here.

1. U (2 man) makes OOB call on end line opposite table in the 2nd half, ball to the defensive team.
2. R2 (for next game) is walking along the same endline, en route to the table to watch the rest of this game.
3. Coach of offensive team complains about call, ending with "Everyone saw it but you."
4. R steps in and warns coach to cool it.
5. R2, now sitting behind the offensive bench, exclaims "that was a crappy call."
6. R calls T on coach, as the comment came just as he turned away.
7. R retracts T after finding it was the official who made the comment.

While this situation was made worse by the fact that the official was wearing his stripes, in my opinion, the worst thing an official can do is bad mouth another official during a contest; especially when those around him know he's an official, regardless of the sport.

Hey Snaq I totally agree with you. I'm not one to undermine a fellow official in public like that. Doing the job has taught me otherwise.

No I was not one of the players yelling at the umpire, because I couldn't tell one way or the other.

The only time in this league I've ever spoken directly to an umpire about a call is this situation: My team is playing defense, and the batter hits a ball down the right field line. It falls in, really close to the line, probably right on the line. The umpire gives no signal. No point, no verbalization, nothing. I spoke to him after the game and asked him to do something next time so we know what's going on.

That's the right mechanic. The only time an umpire is going to verbalize is on a FOUL ball. Fair ball, we play and nothing is said... Different sport, I know but that's just my 22 pesos.

I know that nothing is said on a fair ball, but I was always taught that an umpire should just point to fair territory, not verbalizing "fair ball"

You have every reason in the world to feel pissed off. That type of back-stabbing is thoroughly unprofessional(even though the judtech's of the world disagree).

That's an instant and well-deserved suspension in my association as soon as we find out about it. Aamof I don't know of any officiating group that wouldn't act somehow on a situation like that.

Did anybody report this one? Or were there other factors involved?

You are correct. On any fair/foul call, the calling umpire should point the appropriate direction. Foul balls should also be verbalized.

In my experience, an umpire who doesn't signal is a newer umpire, so he is might not have seen it.

I haven't spoken to the R for that game, who actually heard the comment, so I couldn't tell you. The U, who couldn't hear it from across the court, decided to leave it in the hands of the veteran R and simply block R2.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bas2456 http://forum.officiating.com/images/...s/viewpost.gif
I know that nothing is said on a fair ball, but I was always taught that an umpire should just point to fair territory, not verbalizing "fair ball"



Yep, I stepped in it again... I focused solely on the verbal part and ignored the part about the point. You're right. Of course an umpire should point a fair ball. Mea culpa. Sorry. :o

Holy cow. Yeah, that guy would not work in my area or for anyone who knew me ever again. Good grief. It's one thing to say something around "the tree", or here. Completely another around participants. If I'm watching a game, and the official blows a call, and someone who knows I'm an official asks me about it - the very most you'll get out of me is "He's got a LOT better view of that play than we do - there's a reason you don't umpire from the stands"

That's not bad: avoids the 2 lies people tell ("I didn't see it," and "Looked like he got it right" for an obviously blown call).

Another one I like is, "I don't think I saw the whole play," which provides a report about me rather than a comment on him or his call.

Prolly so. The ump seems to have lowered himself to your level. But you seem intent on ignoring the behavior of your teammates. I wonder why that is. :confused:

Hey, I can only control what I do on the field. We're all adults. We can make decisions for ourselves. If they choose to complain about a call, that's their perogative (sp?). They've never officiated anything, so we can't hold them to a higher standard.