OT--I didn't like this

[Adam]

Originally Posted by bas2456

Let me rephrase. While it's not the most competitive league, it's still taken seriously. Like I said in the OP, there's other ways to go about doing what he did. I felt it was unnecessary to let the entire park know he was calling us out.

Well, if the whole park could hear the bench calling out the umpire, I don't see much of a problem. Would I do it? Doubtful, but I haven't spent an entire evening listening to a bunch of Jason Giambi never-weres crying about close calls, either.

[bas2456]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Well, if the whole park could hear the bench calling out the umpire, I don't see much of a problem. Would I do it? Doubtful, but I haven't spent an entire evening listening to a bunch of Jason Giambi never-weres crying about close calls, either.

But I'll bet you have spent entire evenings listening to a bunch of LeBron/Phil Jackson wanna-bes cry about foul calls or non-calls.

The situation is the same. No matter the sport or level, what he did was unprofessional, IMO.

[referee99]

... is the proffering of suggested smart-*** comments we so dearly wish we could utter that would just be hi-larious! But alas, they simply remain only in the cranium or uttered under the breath.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by bas2456

But I'll bet you have spent entire evenings listening to a bunch of LeBron/Phil Jackson wanna-bes cry about foul calls or non-calls.

No, I haven't spent entire evenings listening to cry babies. I put a stop to it quickly. The T works wonders.

Originally Posted by bas2456

The situation is the same. No matter the sport or level, what he did was unprofessional, IMO.

You may be right, but it's also unprofessional for an official to play on a team and spend the evening complaining to the officials. I'm sorry, but while I would probably never use that particular tool, the bottom line for me is it worked. He was able to do it without tossing your teammate, too.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I'm sorry, but while I would probably never use that particular tool, the bottom line for me is it worked.

Ok, first let me say that I know this is not the message you intended, but it is present in your post...this is a very dangerous statement - at least in my mind. And it's why we have so many officials who simply make up their own ways of dealing with situations rather than following the proscribed rules and mechanics.

The fact that it "worked" does NOT justify unprofessional conduct from an official. The ends do not justify the means. Like it or not, we are held to a higher standard. To do things like this umpire did - or make the comments that Mr. Padgett likes to make - is contrary to the officials code of ethics that we all agree to abide by when we put on the uniform. and believe me, I have learned the hard way that - in the long run - these types of antics don't work. They will always come back to haunt you at some future time.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

The fact that it "worked" does NOT justify unprofessional conduct from an official. The ends do not justify the means. Like it or not, we are held to a higher standard. To do things like this umpire did - or make the comments that Mr. Padgett likes to make - is contrary to the officials code of ethics that we all agree to abide by when we put on the uniform. and believe me, I have learned the hard way that - in the long run - these types of antics don't work. They will always come back to haunt you at some future time.

Amen! Wise words.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Ok, first let me say that I know this is not the message you intended, but it is present in your post...this is a very dangerous statement - at least in my mind. And it's why we have so many officials who simply make up their own ways of dealing with situations rather than following the proscribed rules and mechanics.

The fact that it "worked" does NOT justify unprofessional conduct from an official. The ends do not justify the means. Like it or not, we are held to a higher standard. To do things like this umpire did - or make the comments that Mr. Padgett likes to make - is contrary to the officials code of ethics that we all agree to abide by when we put on the uniform. and believe me, I have learned the hard way that - in the long run - these types of antics don't work. They will always come back to haunt you at some future time.

You're correct, rocky.
1. It's not what i meant to say.
2. It's what i actually did say.
3. It's unprofessional, even if I can understand the impulse.

I still stand by the fact that it's more unprofessional for an official to participate in such a contest and publicly critique the umpire. The OP didn't actually admit to such, but I'm inferring it from his post. If he did not, and only allowed his teammates to engage in such behavior, then it's slightly less unprofessional so I will slighly apologize.

[bas2456]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I still stand by the fact that it's more unprofessional for an official to participate in such a contest and publicly critique the umpire. The OP didn't actually admit to such, but I'm inferring it from his post. If he did not, and only allowed his teammates to engage in such behavior, then it's slightly less unprofessional so I will slighly apologize.

The play in question was a bang-bang play at first. I was coaching 3rd base at the time and didn't have a great look either way. Couldn't tell you if our runner was safe or out.

I slightly accept your slight apology

[Adam]

Originally Posted by bas2456

The play in question was a bang-bang play at first. I was coaching 3rd base at the time and didn't have a great look either way. Couldn't tell you if our runner was safe or out.

I slightly accept your slight apology

You still didn't address my assumption directly. I'll change now, and assume that you weren't participating in chiding the official; at least on that particular play.

I'm a little testy about this subject this summer due to a situation here.

1. U (2 man) makes OOB call on end line opposite table in the 2nd half, ball to the defensive team.
2. R2 (for next game) is walking along the same endline, en route to the table to watch the rest of this game.
3. Coach of offensive team complains about call, ending with "Everyone saw it but you."
4. R steps in and warns coach to cool it.
5. R2, now sitting behind the offensive bench, exclaims "that was a crappy call."
6. R calls T on coach, as the comment came just as he turned away.
7. R retracts T after finding it was the official who made the comment.

While this situation was made worse by the fact that the official was wearing his stripes, in my opinion, the worst thing an official can do is bad mouth another official during a contest; especially when those around him know he's an official, regardless of the sport.

[bas2456]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

You still didn't address my assumption directly. I'll change now, and assume that you weren't participating in chiding the official; at least on that particular play.

I'm a little testy about this subject this summer due to a situation here.

1. U (2 man) makes OOB call on end line opposite table in the 2nd half, ball to the defensive team.
2. R2 (for next game) is walking along the same endline, en route to the table to watch the rest of this game.
3. Coach of offensive team complains about call, ending with "Everyone saw it but you."
4. R steps in and warns coach to cool it.
5. R2, now sitting behind the offensive bench, exclaims "that was a crappy call."
6. R calls T on coach, as the comment came just as he turned away.
7. R retracts T after finding it was the official who made the comment.

While this situation was made worse by the fact that the official was wearing his stripes, in my opinion, the worst thing an official can do is bad mouth another official during a contest; especially when those around him know he's an official, regardless of the sport.

Hey Snaq I totally agree with you. I'm not one to undermine a fellow official in public like that. Doing the job has taught me otherwise.

No I was not one of the players yelling at the umpire, because I couldn't tell one way or the other.

The only time in this league I've ever spoken directly to an umpire about a call is this situation: My team is playing defense, and the batter hits a ball down the right field line. It falls in, really close to the line, probably right on the line. The umpire gives no signal. No point, no verbalization, nothing. I spoke to him after the game and asked him to do something next time so we know what's going on.

[Rooster]

Originally Posted by bas2456

The only time in this league I've ever spoken directly to an umpire about a call is this situation: My team is playing defense, and the batter hits a ball down the right field line. It falls in, really close to the line, probably right on the line. The umpire gives no signal. No point, no verbalization, nothing. I spoke to him after the game and asked him to do something next time so we know what's going on.

That's the right mechanic. The only time an umpire is going to verbalize is on a FOUL ball. Fair ball, we play and nothing is said... Different sport, I know but that's just my 22 pesos.

[bas2456]

Originally Posted by The Rooster

That's the right mechanic. The only time an umpire is going to verbalize is on a FOUL ball. Fair ball, we play and nothing is said... Different sport, I know but that's just my 22 pesos.

I know that nothing is said on a fair ball, but I was always taught that an umpire should just point to fair territory, not verbalizing "fair ball"

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I'm a little testy about this subject this summer due to a situation here.

1. U (2 man) makes OOB call on end line opposite table in the 2nd half, ball to the defensive team.
2. R2 (for next game) is walking along the same endline, en route to the table to watch the rest of this game.
3. Coach of offensive team complains about call, ending with "Everyone saw it but you."
5. R2, now sitting behind the offensive bench, exclaims "that was a crappy call."

You have every reason in the world to feel pissed off. That type of back-stabbing is thoroughly unprofessional(even though the judtech's of the world disagree).

That's an instant and well-deserved suspension in my association as soon as we find out about it. Aamof I don't know of any officiating group that wouldn't act somehow on a situation like that.

Did anybody report this one? Or were there other factors involved?

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by bas2456

I know that nothing is said on a fair ball, but I was always taught that an umpire should just point to fair territory, not verbalizing "fair ball"

You are correct. On any fair/foul call, the calling umpire should point the appropriate direction. Foul balls should also be verbalized.

In my experience, an umpire who doesn't signal is a newer umpire, so he is might not have seen it.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

You have every reason in the world to feel pissed off. That type of back-stabbing is thoroughly unprofessional(even though the judtech's of the world disagree).

That's an instant and well-deserved suspension in my association as soon as we find out about it. Aamof I don't know of any officiating group that wouldn't act somehow on a situation like that.

Did anybody report this one? Or were there other factors involved?

I haven't spoken to the R for that game, who actually heard the comment, so I couldn't tell you. The U, who couldn't hear it from across the court, decided to leave it in the hands of the veteran R and simply block R2.