The Official Forum

The Official Forum (https://forum.officiating.com/)
-   Basketball (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/)
-   -   Tim Donaghy critiques the officiating in the NBA finals (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/58386-tim-donaghy-critiques-officiating-nba-finals.html)

Jurassic Referee Sat Jun 12, 2010 02:21pm

Tim Donaghy critiques the officiating in the NBA finals
 
Take a look at the top of the page. If you click on "Tim Donaghy", you'll get his critique of how the first four games of the NBA Finals were officiated.

Deadspin, Sports News without Access, Favor, or Discretion

All I can say is un-freaking-believable.

JRutledge Sat Jun 12, 2010 02:46pm

I cannot stand to listen to this man. I guess he thinks his comments are hurting the league. Well they are, but that is the only reason he is doing this is to get back and those that did not support him.

Peace

Adam Sat Jun 12, 2010 04:43pm

I'm getting infuriated about how much credibility various radio personalities are giving him.

26 Year Gap Sat Jun 12, 2010 08:33pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 681657)
I'm getting infuriated about how much credibility various radio personalities are giving him.

The media just does not like people who know the rules. *cough* *cough* *Bilas* *cough* Cough*

bainsey Sat Jun 12, 2010 08:50pm

Deadspin got our attention. That's all that matters.

canuckrefguy Mon Jun 14, 2010 12:15am

I hate to say this, but some of his observations were bang on.

JRutledge Mon Jun 14, 2010 08:18am

Quote:

Originally Posted by canuckrefguy (Post 681775)
I hate to say this, but some of his observations were bang on.

A stopped clock is right twice a day.

I have no problem if his takes seemed fair. But they have a vindictive nature to them. He makes it sound like the officials do nothing right. Then he makes it seem as if calls were made because people complained or *****ed about previous calls. Or he claims they are just incompetent. Now I do not know a lot of his background from what he has done as an official, but I do not recall that he was a NBA Finals mainstay. It sounds mostly like sour grapes because he is no longer in the league and he was caught.

Peace

grunewar Mon Jun 14, 2010 08:26am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 681801)
A stopped clock is right twice a day.

I have no problem if his takes seemed fair. But they have a vindictive nature to them.

It sounds mostly like sour grapes because he is no longer in the league and he was caught

Absolutely agree!



Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 681801)
He makes it sound like the officials do nothing right.

This is what I think everytime I get evaluated! :p

Mark Padgett Mon Jun 14, 2010 12:21pm

Here's Donaghy holding Kobe back from making a layup so the Lakers don't beat the spread.


http://imgs.sfgate.com/c/pictures/20...0497220899.jpg

jeffpea Mon Jun 14, 2010 12:38pm

tim donaghy's comments of this game are pretty accurate. I have no problem with him breaking down the film and evaluating whether calls are correct or not.

the problem I do have is his "slanted" opinion that the reason these calls are incorrect is to extend the series and, therefore, make more money for the NBA.

tim, guys miss calls all the time - they're human (ask MLB Umpire Jim Joyce)! they're not doing it for nefarious reasons. they simply got it wrong. the reason the Celtics shot 30+ FT's in games vs the Magic was they got the ball into the lane three times as much as the Magic did. the team that gets the ball into the paint more often during a game usually wins (they get easier shots and they get to the FT line).

donaghy's right - these calls were missed/bad. donaghy's wrong as to the reason why......

Jurassic Referee Mon Jun 14, 2010 01:35pm

The problem is that none of us really knows what a "missed call" in the NBA system actually is. Every call the officials make is graded. But if the grading system is completely subjective on the part of the grader, how do we know what the NBA considers as a "missed call"?

A call might be completely wrong in our eyes, but it may still be perfectly OK in the eyes of the NBA evaluators.

And as jeffpea said, officials are human and will miss calls.

You can't forget that Donaghy also graded out as being one of their staff's more accurate play callers, even in the period that he was supplying info to gamblers. The info that he was supplied was on on officials' calling tendencies, likes/dislikes and injuries he might have heard about. I don't think that he was ever accused of trying to blow calls to affect the outcome of a game. That's the scary part.

As I've said numerous times before, imo the NBA micro-manages their officals as to how the league wants their games called. And if the officials are getting good grades from the league in a game while following the league's direction, you can't blame the officials for supposedly crappy officiating in the same game. The guys are just providing what their bosses want. And they really don't have a choice. Their jobs depend on their evaluations.

JRutledge Mon Jun 14, 2010 02:13pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffpea (Post 681856)
donaghy's right - these calls were missed/bad. donaghy's wrong as to the reason why......


I agree that he might have been right some of the time, but his opinion is very subjective. He might know more about NBA rules, but even his justifications were based on his opinion. And in some case he did not even talk about the call, gave some reason that was nefarious to why a call was even made.

I would like his take if he gave reasons for the calls being missed rather than say the officials were setting it up to screw or cheat a team.

Peace

JRutledge Mon Jun 14, 2010 02:21pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee (Post 681867)
As I've said numerous times before, imo the NBA micro-manages their officals as to how the league wants their games called. And if the officials are getting good grades from the league in a game while following the league's direction, you can't blame the officials for supposedly crappy officiating in the same game. The guys are just providing what their bosses want. And they really don't have a choice. Their jobs depend on their evaluations.

I completely agree, but that is the case at most pro leagues. The NBA is no different; it is just harder IMO to be an NBA (basketball) official because we have so many more decisions to make. A baseball umpire in many cases is not ruling on anything during a play. And everyone gets upset over things that happen in basketball games they do not get upset over in things like an NFL game. But all those leagues have standards that those officials must adhere to. I belong to an association that has three current NFL officials and they talk a lot about what they are expected to do as well. But an NFL official might only have 160 to 200 plays total to rule on. A basketball official does that in a quarter. And even in Tim's critique were a lot of plays that other sports might not even have to be evaluated on.

Peace

Adam Mon Jun 14, 2010 02:24pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 681872)
I would like his take if he gave reasons for the calls being missed rather than say the officials were setting it up to screw or cheat a team.

Peace

Methinks he is projecting.

APG Mon Jun 14, 2010 04:57pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 681873)
The NBA is no different; it is just harder IMO to be an NBA (basketball) official because we have so many more decisions to make. A baseball umpire in many cases is not ruling on anything during a play. And everyone gets upset over things that happen in basketball games they do not get upset over in things like an NFL game.

I agree with this portion 100%. I also think what helps the perception of football officials is their ability to use a mic. Football has many rules and then many exceptions to the rules. The average fan has an idea what pass interference is. The also usually know that is doesn't apply to uncatchable passes or if the defender is playing the ball (looking back for the ball, etc.). They know this because the referee will announce to everyone why a foul wasn't called. Also, everyone sees the signal and hears the announcement of said call from the official.

Contrast that with a bunch of misconceptions heard all the time at any basketball game...

"That's over the back!"
"He's reaching!"
"How was that a charge?! He was moving!"

etc.

And even though we also give a signal to indicate the type of foul, no one except maybe the coach pays attention to that. Fans see the official with a fist up and blow the whistle, disagree with the call when they may have no idea what specifically the official called the infraction for.

bradfordwilkins Mon Jun 14, 2010 08:21pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer (Post 681907)

And even though we also give a signal to indicate the type of foul, no one except maybe the coach pays attention to that. Fans see the official with a fist up and blow the whistle, disagree with the call when they may have no idea what specifically the official called the infraction for.

One of my favorite things about the pro-am game is the ability to illustrate what foul occurred more accurately than the limited options in the back of the book. Saves a lot of time with coaches and players explaining what happened.

APG Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:18pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bradfordwilkins (Post 681933)
One of my favorite things about the pro-am game is the ability to illustrate what foul occurred more accurately than the limited options in the back of the book. Saves a lot of time with coaches and players explaining what happened.

I love that too. It's probably why I'm not 100% by the book when it comes to signaling haha :D

Jurassic Referee Tue Jun 15, 2010 06:10am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bradfordwilkins (Post 681933)
One of my favorite things about the pro-am game is the ability to illustrate what foul occurred more accurately than the limited options in the back of the book. Saves a lot of time with coaches and players explaining what happened.

Pro-am is basically rec league basketball. We usually do a few other things differently also in rec leagues than in the more structured games.

Slavish adherence to mechanics in rec league games is usually based on the personal philosophy of the person assigning them in my experience. And imo, reporting by the book ain't a biggie in rec basketball.

JMO.

SmokeEater Tue Jun 15, 2010 03:16pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 681801)
A stopped clock is right twice a day.

I have no problem if his takes seemed fair. But they have a vindictive nature to them. He makes it sound like the officials do nothing right. Then he makes it seem as if calls were made because people complained or *****ed about previous calls. Or he claims they are just incompetent. Now I do not know a lot of his background from what he has done as an official, but I do not recall that he was a NBA Finals mainstay. It sounds mostly like sour grapes because he is no longer in the league and he was caught.

Peace

I don't know why but I just spent 30 minutes reviewing each one of the games that were critiqued by Donaghy. Thats 30 minutes I used to confirm this comment for myself and I couldn't agree more.

He is wrong about the calls far more often then his comments are credible. My observation by reading the comment, watching the segment in the video and then re-reading the comments.

No credibility to this guy at all.

Steven Tyler Fri Jun 18, 2010 09:49am

The NBA is just a money grab

The only way I can tell a foul from a non foul is watching Kobe Bryant.

Fouls always happen when he is shooting and non fouls occur when he is called for one on defense. He especially got away with one when he pushed Kendrick Perkins in the back on the play is which Perkins was injured.

At least the good thing that will happen since the Lakers won is the fans will set most Los Angeles on fire.

Raymond Fri Jun 18, 2010 10:11am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler (Post 682494)
The NBA is just a money grab

The only way I can tell a foul from a non foul is watching Kobe Bryant.

Fouls always happen when he is shooting and non fouls occur when he is called for one on defense. He especially got away with one when he pushed Kendrick Perkins in the back on the play is which Perkins was injured.

At least the good thing that will happen since the Lakers won is the fans will set most Los Angeles on fire.

Actually it was Andrew Bynum who came over Perkins back, and he was called for a foul. Kobe was on the side of Perkins swiping at the ball.

APG Fri Jun 18, 2010 12:20pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler (Post 682494)
The NBA is just a money grab

The only way I can tell a foul from a non foul is watching Kobe Bryant.

Fouls always happen when he is shooting and non fouls occur when he is called for one on defense. He especially got away with one when he pushed Kendrick Perkins in the back on the play is which Perkins was injured.

At least the good thing that will happen since the Lakers won is the fans will set most Los Angeles on fire.

Really? The play in question, Kobe Bryant was on the side of Perkins and went for the strip. Andrew Bynum attempted to get the rebound from behind but displaced Perkins, and was properly called for a loose ball foul. It was just unfortunate that Perkins got injured.

Steven Tyler Sat Jun 19, 2010 09:55am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 682497)
Actually it was Andrew Bynum who came over Perkins back, and he was called for a foul. Kobe was on the side of Perkins swiping at the ball.

This is true, but Kobe gave Perkins a push with his left hand as Perkins was going up. He didn't swipe at the ball until Perkins feet hit the floor. They showed that on the first replay. After that they only showed Bynum going over Perkins back. You should also notice that Bryant immediately turned and started his usual "whine" when the whistle blew. I assume he thought the foul was on him.

IMO, they should give Bryant a whistle or let him call his own fouls like they do in pickup games. I'm surprised he doesn't get T'd up more.

APG Sat Jun 19, 2010 07:00pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler (Post 682561)
This is true, but Kobe gave Perkins a push with his left hand as Perkins was going up. He didn't swipe at the ball until Perkins feet hit the floor. They showed that on the first replay. After that they only showed Bynum going over Perkins back. You should also notice that Bryant immediately turned and started his usual "whine" when the whistle blew. I assume he thought the foul was on him.

IMO, they should give Bryant a whistle or let him call his own fouls like they do in pickup games. I'm surprised he doesn't get T'd up more.

YouTube - Kendrick Perkins Right Knee Injury - Game 6 - 2010 NBA Finals

I do not see any contact between Kobe and Perkins that would could be considered a foul before the steal attempt. If there's a push there, then I don't see it.

As far as technical fouls on Kobe Bryant goes, he had the fourth most during the regular season with 14 technical fouls in 73 games played (as opposed to 82) which as go for fourth in the league.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:44pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1