Twenty four or two four?
 

No, this isn't about the old Chicago song, "25 or 6 to 4". It's about how we report numbers of players to the score table. I've always been told the proper way is to say the actual number, such as "twenty four", but ever since the NBA officials started using individual digits a while back (i.e.: two four), it seems most of the officials I work with use that method. One guy told me he does it because "it's cool".

Do your assignors direct you or does your association specify which method they want you to use? Do you just use one or the other for some other reason?

Maybe we should take a poll.

I haven't heard any directives from our association or assignors, but I've been taught to give the entire number as you do.

Since I began a few yrs back I was always a 2 - 4 person for lack of any direct guidance and I had no problems with it.

However, the other night, one of our evaluators/trainers said to use 24. I was kinda surprised by it as no one had ever differentiated before. But now I go with the flow (shocker). Easy adjustment.

As they say on the ole Forum, "When in Rome......

For me, it depends on the level. In HS, using NFHS mechanics, I verbalize the individual numerals, two-four, because I display them individually. Using NCAA-W mechanics, I verbalize the number, twenty-four, because I display the whole number at one time.

I know other areas might be different, but the most important aspect is to make sure your scorekeeper understands you. Do what's used in your area, so there's less confusion.

The chapter I belong to trains us to say the whole number "twenty-four" instead of the individual digits.

The main reason I was given for using the entire number was that there is much less possibility of confusing the book guy (or hot mom). If you say the individual digits, there's the chance they might hear only the first one and give the foul to a kid with a single number. The real only chance that might happen if you use the entire number is when you report number 14 (assuming the teams are using only legal numbers). I guess if you use the entire number, there's still a (very) small chance they might only hear, for instance, "thirty" when you say "thirty one" and give the foul to number thirty, but that's a long shot.

I was trained to verbalize the whole number. I started out verbalizing the indivual digits, but was told at 2 seperate camps to verbalize the whole number.

I say twenty four because up here a two four means you've just asked for a flat of beer.;)

When In Connecticut ...
 

"Two Four". That's what we've been taught here in our little corner of Connecticut. Been that way for thirty years.

I like M&M Guy's reasoning: "I verbalize the individual numerals, two-four, because I display them individually".

Bottom line: When in Rome ...

I've been told both ways at different camps. I actually do both as odd as that sounds.

{Foul is on} "24, {Two fingers} 2, {Four fingers} 4, Contact, Two shots....."

Always worked well for me.

-Josh

I've always been a full number guy. Never had a problem doing that way and never had anyone say anything about it.

TWENTY-FOUR


MTD, Sr.

In my limited time on the court, I've verbalized each individual digit as I display the number with my hand.

I've had a lot of partners who have done both while reporting, and I don't find anything wrong with it. As long as the table is clear on who is to be charged with the foul, it doesn't matter to me how ya do it.

I have a very difficult time with the "When In Rome" reasoning. It is bad enough that NCAA -W NFHS/NCAAA Men have different signals. It is hard enough remembering which way to report with out trying to 'figure' out how to report 24 as: XXIV or XX IV or II IV !?!?!?

YUCK. You give the number to the scorer twice?
Please cease doing that immediately.
Nothing looks more like a rookie.

I have always used the full number. The main assignor in Central Ohio demands the full number. His reasoning is that player #1 and #2 is at a distinct disadvantage since a foul on 1-2 (i.e. 12) can be erroneously assigned to #1 and/or #2 in error.

I have always used the two digits. The main assignor in Anywhere USA demands the two digits. His reasoning is that player #20 and #4 is at a distinct disadvantage since a foul on twenty four (i.e. 2-4) can be erroneously assigned to #20 and/or #4 in error.

Funny how various regions do things differently! Out here "Foul is on" and "contact" are frowned upon.

+1

And, don't say, "I've got" either..... :o

Plus it would be nice if he gave the color too. ;)

And using that same logic, when you report a foul on fourteen, there's a chance it could be assigned to four by mistake if the scorer doesn't hear your "teen". And, when you do report it, do you say "four" when holding up one finger, then "teen" when holding up 4 fingers?

I guess we could find all kinds of reasons why one method is better than another, especially since the mechanics book doesn't get that specific. The bottom line is effective communication with the table. That's why it's important to know how it's done in your area, so the scorekeeper doesn't have to adjust what they hear and look at between different games, or even between partners in the same game. That's the best way to avoid mistakes.

[QUOTE=M&M Guy;676525

so the scorekeeper doesn't have to adjust what they hear and look at between different games, or even between partners in the same game. That's the best way to avoid mistakes.[/QUOTE]

Or even between the last foul you reported and the next one you report. I've seen people do it one way on one report, and then do it the other way the next time they report. That's the main thing we are trying to avoid. I could not care less whether you do it as "Two, four" or as "Twenty-four", as long as you are consistent in the way you report.

Entire number here in SE Michigan

This would be something to discuss with the table personnel before the game starts. May seem trivial, but it could save a big mix-up later on.

I disagree. I think there are far more rookiesque things than, "White, twenty-four! White, two, four!"

Besides, taking another second for the sake of clarity seldom hurt anyone, and could prevent the scorekeeper saying, "what number was that?"

I used to be a "two-four" person. Now, it's "twenty-four." I used to verbalize the infraction, now I don't.

"Blue, twenty-four, two shots."

Stupid question...I assume the infraction is still signaled?

Somewhere in the book it states to report "the number". To me, the number is twenty-four. Confusion is reduced when an official moves briskly to the reporting area, stops, and verbalizes to the scorekeeeper , a made basket (if applicable), the color of the jersey, the number (displaying each number individually on one hand), type of foul and how many shots (if applicable). See official manual for reporting area.
And you college officials. DO NOT bring the 2-hand reporting down to the high school game. :D

I forgot to ask. How would you report "twenty-four" in binary? :eek:

You wouldn't. Your assignors would tell you to speed up the game. And if you were doing the JV game, the varsity officials would give you some 'advice'.:p [knowing you meant to type in blue]

Not a stupid question.
Yes, it's still signaled, I didn't address my hand signals, which still include the numbers on the jersey and the infraction.

Interesting. What is the rationale for not verbalizing the infraction? Giving somebody one less thing to argue about?

Yep.

Yep. I've been taught - "you can't quote silence." In the case of reporting, less talk is better.

"Red, 24" (insert signal) "two"

This reminded me of an official in our association who's signals and reporting style seems to be different than the rest of us.

I was asked a few years ago to work with him on his mechanics. It was felt that he had good judgement but he just didn't look the part. His main problem was his less than fit look and his sloppy mechanics. His signals were never sharp and we tried to help him but he has not changed one bit. Thus he could probably working a higher level if it weren't for his mechanics.

Here's how he reports an "illegal use of the hands" foul. "I've got a foul on Blue 12, that's Blue 12. Hits. Two shots". Around here we don't verbalize the foul and the few that do never say "hits".

One finger, one finger, clenched fist, clenched fist, clenched fist.

Screw it. I'm sticking with base ten (or base six, in this case).

Speaking of "old school" (the terminlogy, not the person), we had a guy the other night not only bird-dog on a foul, but as he reported to the table, he pointed to the bench of the player the foul was on as the first mechanic/visual aid of his procedure......

I've seen that as well! Usually from the older -errr- more experienced officials...
I'm guessing that's how it used to be done at one time?

I work a lot of rec games with a guy who does that (pointing to the bench, not bird dogging - and he uses his entire hand to point, not just one finger). He also wears a collared shirt and cuffed pants with a belt. He's a pretty good official, though.

So, I've been told. Heard it hasn't been around for "quite a while." Maybe Sr., Bob, Billy or one of our other more "senior" Forum Members can tell us about how long ago......

Yepperdoodle, that thar would be the mechanic!

I'm sure Jurassic could chime in and let everyone know what it was like "back in the day". ;)I m just glad we got rid of the zipper and butterfly collared shirts!!

The only time, in my short career, where I've used this mechanic was when I was working a game at a deaf school where the person working the book was deaf. In fact, they looked at me weird when I didn't do it the first couple of times! Hahaha :p

I think this weekend at spring league, I'm going to report the fouls in pig-latin.

"U-blay, entytway orfay, ootay otshay."

Maybe I'll signal the number with my toes, too. It won't take me too long to remove, then put back on, my shoes and socks each time.

Of course, if there's a hot mom at the table, I can just hope there's a foul on number 1 or 11. I can signal that a completely different way! :eek:

OK - I'm waiting for the remark which has her saying, "Huh? We don't have a number 1/2."

Yup...he went there...

Wow...

Wait let me fix that:

Wow...

I just use the base that is equivalent to the current number I'm reporting. Much eaiser just hold up one finger for every foul. ;)

Which finger?

Well...
 

I usually don't call fouls. :D I've found the games go faster. :p

I say the number: Twenty-Four

Experienced ...
 

Hey! Older? Senior? Please. The correct term is experienced.

I've been doing this for thirty years and I've never heard of a NFHS, or IAABO, mechanic where you point to the bench. However, we do service a deaf high school in our local area. Really good basketball. Since the scorekeeper is usually deaf in these games we start our reporting by pointing to the bench as we verbalize the color.

Now if you want to go back more than thirty years, wait for Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. to come along. He's been officiating since the nineteenth century. To get to his games he used to walk ten miles through snow that was several feet deep. Uphill. Both ways.

You are reporting the color and number to the scorer at the table. After they get this information they don't care what kind of foul you have. When signalling the type of infraction (and or and not verbalizing the infraction) you are now giving additional information to the coaches who are watching, and maybe the fans who are watching what you are doing.