Unapproachable Coach vs. Unapproachable Ref
 

At camps or meetings, whenever we're reminded by the board or evaulators that coaches' biggest complaints are referees being "unapproachable" I always start thinking.

Do coaches realize how unapproachable they make themselves sometimes? I'm certainly not a master of communication, but generally have no problems stepping aside and speaking with a coach, answering a question, or even listening to a rational complaint every now and then.

But, far too often there's the coach who isn't really interested in "communicating" at all. He just wants to try and influence your game, vent, yell, or whatever. Are these the same ones that then complain about referees not talking to them?

In my mind, the problem in coach-referee communication usually resides with the one wearing a tie. Oh well, that must be why they call it a thankless job :)

In my experience, sometimes but not always.

Being able to actually call a game at a given level is on the first step to proficiency; and it's not the hardest step. Learning to communicate appropriately and effectively to coaches is the final and most difficult piece.

OTOH, there are some coaches with whom we just cannot communicate because their expectations from the communication are unreasonable.

Most officials I know would talk to any coach that comes to them in a calm and responsible manner. I guess people feel because you yell at the top of your lungs and call the person names that will make officials want to talk to you. I have told coaches "I am not talking to you until you learn how to talk to me." Usually that gets the message across and it really makes no difference what they are yelling about. I do completely agree that most of the time the coaches are the ones causing the problem. I cannot say I have seen officials yelling at coaches for things that take place in the game. It just does not happened that way.

Peace

IMO a lot of it depends on the personality of both parties. There ARE some officials who are not approachable, and there are CERTAINLY coaches who are that way.
An evaluator once told a group of us that when he talks about "unapproachable officials" he is talking about officials with short fuses and/or offiicials who don't know how to respond w/out sounding arrogant. Of course, he also said both of those are VERY subjective.
It may suprise some, but I am pretty laid back. While I am very confident in my ability, if a coach ASKS a question, I am more than happy to answer. If I know that a coach has been a problem in the past, I try to crack a joke, usually at my expense, in the pregame. During the game, if a coach is getting really exercised, I try to wait for a dead ball where I am close and acknowledge that I am aware they have some type of concern, and it is easier to communicate when there isn't yelling involved. i.e. "Coach, if you have a question about something, feel free to ask. IF you yell, then I just think you are my wife yelling at me for something and tune it out!!" That usually works. But there are some coaches who just want to keep on. I just put it in my mind, I did my best to be approachable, and they weren't so just let it go and only communicate whenn I have to : First Horns, TO length, foul outs.

I also think officials get that tag from coaches because they do not appease their requests no matter how ridiculous those requests are. I do not know very many officials that are totally against talking to coaches and players without any provocation. I have seen coaches yell across the court and cannot understand why an official is not talking to them.

Peace

Speaking of dealing with coaches....
 

I was working a Jr high rec game last Saturday, Team A is a very good team and is winning.

2nd Quarter....Dead ball I'm Trail far side, horn goes off and I see the Sub A running in. Its rec ball so I'll give the kid a break and walk over to him and explain that he isn't to come in the game until we call for him. He says ok.

3rd Quarter....Dead ball I'm table side Trail, sub (same player) runs onto the floor. I blow my whistle, tweet tweet, kid keeps going, tweet tweet tweet tweet, kid doesn't stop.

TWEET...Technical Foul White

Coach walks over "what did he do?" I give the stop sign and say "Hold on coach i'll be right back". I anticipated the coach questioning the call but I wanted to explain to my (young) partner what was going on so he could get the FTs started.

He then yells "u better come back over here and explain to me NOW, Right now!!! (while pointing at the floor). I look at him and look at the table, "TWEET...Technical Foul Unsporting Conduct White Coach.

I turn back around and go to my partner and explain everything to him. I come back to the coach and I tell him the player entered the game without being called in and its a technical. He replies 'Doesn't he get a warning?" I reply "I gave him a warning." He says "well you didn't warn me".

Me: (By this time I had had enough) "Coach I don't have to warn you. Its in the rule book, pick one up, your player has to wait for us to call him in."

Coach: "Well before the game you said to keep communication lines open...but you didn't communicate with me. You didn't keep your word....you didn't keep your word." (Now imagine the coach saying this in an Asian accent....it was sorta funny to me):D


While that was the highlight of my evening, what could I have done better here? Mind you I had no trouble with the guy before or after this incident. My thinking for the Technical is its obviously in the rulebook BUT sometimes experience is the best lesson....I'm sure the kid and the coach will wait for the official to call em in next time.

There is nothing you can do with an unreasonable individual. First of all "You better come to me right now and give me an explanation" was the way he felt he should talk to you. Well I am a grown *** man and my father died almost 15 years ago and he did not even talk to me that way.

You even seemed to make a public issue of the kid coming onto the court. And you then enforced the rule. I am not sure what else you could have done, because if you went to the coach he might have told you "Well you are the only official that cares....."

Peace

In a rec game, if the coach had been a peach all game, I might have followed up my T (on the coach) with "Coach, I asked you to hold on a second so I could inform my partner what was going on. In the mean time, you're not my coach or my wife, so you don't get to talk to me like one of your players."
If there was any indication that such a conversation would go sour, I'd do nothing.

Yeah, that will get you into trouble. I have to wonder how much coaching inexperience played a role in that line. (I had an inexperienced coach give me lines this year I won't forget soon.)

Still, in fairness, such issues are few and far between, at least from my perspective. Most coaches know how to communicate, as do most officials, but it's often something you learn as you go.

I estimate that I have coaching issues once every dozen or so games. I find the approachable coaches to far outweigh the unapproachable ones. The truth is, though, the unapproachable ones stick in your memory more often, so it may seem more often than it really is.

We all have to be careful with broad-brush statements. They can drive a big wedge into effective communication.

"Unfortunately, they don't sell them at the Dollar Store where, apparently, you buy your clothes."

"Communication is still open, coach. You'll just be talking from, instead of out of, your a$$."

Yeah I couldn't believe he said that....it was pretty unexpected...but I'm glad he did --it gave me experience. :cool:

Yeah I'm pretty sure I'm one of the few officials that officiate this league that would have made the call but I'm probably 1 of 3 officials that are actually trying to improve and go somewhere so I treat each game as the real thing. Crazy me. :confused:

what part of Utah are you from?

Don't get discouraged. I had a similar situation this past year in a middle school game.

During a throw-in, a defender clearly reached through the plane, which is rather frequent in a middle school game. I got the whistle, reported the warning to the table, informed the coach, and went back to make sure the kids knew what the infraction was and what it meant.

This particular coach didn't like the call. When I informed the coach, she wouldn't look me in the eye. When I asked if she understood it, her reply was, "Yeah, I understand it. I just don't agree with it. It's a seventh grade game."

After the game, I pondered that comment, and I came up with three reasons that call should be made:

1. It's just a warning (repeated offenses notwithstanding),
2. Breaking the plan puts the thrower-in at a disadvantage, and
3. If we DON'T call it, how will players learn not to do it?

Stick with the facts, and don't let emotions get in the way.

Since you asked for feedback here are something to consider. In a situation where the coach wants an explaination try saying something along the lines of "I gotcha coach, let me take care of this first and then we can chat." This let's the coach know that you are willing to talk to them, but also letting them know that you have other responsibilities. It is a small change but you the way you phrased it may have been interpreted as brushing him off.
When he questioned why he didn't get a warning I would have left off the second half of your statement. Basically, he asked a question and all you have to do is answer it. "Why didn't I get a warning" "Coach, I don't have to give you a warning" and let it go at that. Anything more you might come across as a bit snarky.
As for the rest of his comments, I would have had to put the sarcasm filter on high for me and just walk away with a smile.
Not trying to come down on the way you handled it. Just trying to pass on some things I have had to work on.:cool:

I dont know what exactly was said in your pre-game, but the following statement from the coach leads me to believe maybe it was too much???? JMO

Personally, I've found "less is more" to be quite accurate. The more we say in pre-game, the more ammunition we give coaches to use on us.

I'm sure we've seen the ol "we're gonna let em play" & "we're gonna work hard for you" lines come back to bite us in the behind.

Working a mens league the other night & my partner chose to have pre-game meetings :rolleyes: with the teams individually. Needless to say, I chose not to take part of THAT. Apparently he told them we were going to let them play like men. 3 minutes in he has a ticky-tack & guess what the players said...

Let me play devil's advocate for a second. I have told coaches that very thing and because the explanation was not coming as fast as they wanted, it did not matter how nice you were to them in explaining you will come when you get a chance.


There would be some that would get upset with you if you told them "I do not have to give you a warning." Not to say that is the wrong thing to say, but having said that I have gotten some flack because I was not willing to give a reason "why" every time something happened.

Now I am just saying this to illustrate how different people deal with different situations. And even how you can have the best intentions and have the worst a-hole coach still overact. This is also why a lot depends on your demeanor, your physical appearance, your tone in your voice, your body language or even the way you look at the coach. And considering this is a "wreak" game, I am sure this coach probably is not that experienced in his role as a coach. And maybe has not been through the training himself to know what to do and how to react to officials and get the appropriate response from them too. Also none of us where there and we really do not know how calm or unreasonable the coach was or even the official in this case. This is why this is the hardest part to teach officials and much of what they learn comes through much trial and error.

Peace

+1

Rule of thumb: A reasonable question gets a reasonable response.

The games where I have been accused of being "unapproachable" were times when that particular coach was a stark, raving lunatic. So no, I didn't even try to communicate with them after the first few minutes.

I thought that coaches were people. :confused: Now you are telling me that they are classified as expectations. No wonder so many officials have trouble dealing with them. :D

shut up

(fixed it)

Thanks for the feedback, JudTech! I am satisfied how I handled the situation BUT I know there were better ways to deal with this coach which is why I asked the group.

You bring up a good point about the "warning" dialogue and I neglected to state that I answered just as you advised the 1ST time he asked "Why didn't I get a warning". By the time the coach asked the 2nd or 3rd time was when I GAVE IT to him and told him to pick up a rulebook. LOL!

And don't worry I allowed him to get the last word in....;)

Good point tref! Basically what I tell the rec coaches during our REQUIRED pregame by the league.....is that if they have a question during the game, ask and talk to us in the same manner we are talking right now, let's not yell so that way we can keep the lines of communication open.

I never promised to hold his hand, talk to him about every call before I made it or be the godfather to his children, I just asked for respect (which I know we will rarely get but can be earned by a few technicals). :D

I appreciate the feedback!

Perhaps you'll get around to fixing this one too. :D

It was worded correctly, but I'll word it differently now to help you.

"You'll just be talking from your a$$ rather than out of it."

I can make it more simpler if you need.

Oh, it's a seat belt joke. How quaint. ;)

Thats the problem with that kind of statement. We may have differences as to what "letting them play like men" means.

Rut:

It is obvious that you didn't have an Italian for a father, :D.

MTD, Sr.


P.S. My father passed ten years ago, and I bet our fathers are watching us from upstairs.

MTD, I grew up right next to an Italian neighborhood on the south side of Chicago and I had a lot of Italian friends (like Silvio and Silvario). You're right. That's the way their dads yelled, er, I mean talked.

You might get a kick out of this. Silvio had red hair and freckles, far from "typical" Italian looks.. All the guys used to say he looked just like his mailman. We never said it around him, because his brother worked for the mob. We were told his job was doping racehorses. Not kidding.

my two cents worth...after you talked to the kid the first time about entering the game, a simple comment to the coach like: "coach - can you help me w/ #12? he simply runs into the game before he's called. i've talked w/ him about it, but i'm not sure he gets it. thanks!"

when you tell the coach each time you have to warn a player about something important, it gives you 3 big benefits: 1) you get the coach to help you stop whatever the issue is (you're working together); 2) the coach sees you warning his players rather than whacking 'em right away; and 3) you're communicating w/ the coach (which they always like) in a non-argumentative/confrontational way

now, when you have to penalize the next time, the coach already knows this is an issue and probably won't be surprised when you assess the T. his frustration will be directed at the player ("not only did the ref tell you about that, but I did too!").

just a thought...

Let me let you in on a little secret. My father was not Italian, but my father did not need to say anything to get a point across. I will let you figure out what that means. ;)

Peace

I'm all for doing this, but I'm not going to let a coach think the warning is required. Any level above this, and there's not going to be a warning at all, even to the player.

In all honesty, my response to the coach when he complained that I hadn't warned him would have been, "Coach, the warning to your player was a courtesy not required by rule."

I am not a fan of going to coaches and telling them things they can see. If I am talking to one of their players they should have some idea that their kid is under some kind of notice.

I personally think we do way too much talking to coaches about things we do not have to. I do not have to explain anything; we do that out of courtesy. If a player violates the rule, it is up to use to enforce it or find another way. Coaches should know the rules so they are not surprised when they are penalized.

Peace

Agree. And coaches are talking to us about things that they don't have to also. And most of those comments don't deserve a response.

If it's a direct question, fine. If it's a comment, there's no need for an explanation. They weren't really looking for one anyway. They're just planting a seed.

+1
You veteran guys have said that here time and time again.
It's one of the biggest things I learned here on the board this past year (my second season), understanding the difference helped me immensely in my game management skills.

I certainly agree, but that's assuming the coach sees us talking to the kid. His attention could very well be elsewhere.

I had a coach suggest jeffpea's approach to me one time, after a freshmen boys game where I had three plane violations (two on one team, one on the other). I was a bit amazed that he even made an issue of that (these were high school players, after all), since there are middle schoolers out there that know not to break the plane! Still, I listened to his feedback, and kept it in the back of my mind. That coach still hired me for another freshman scrimmage, anyway.

I used the "Coach, can you help me out?" approach once after that, but it was regarding an assistant coach issue, not a player. That assistant -- who seemed a bit more domineering than the head -- insisted on standing a few times to give instructions. I don't recall seeing him on his feet after I spoke with the head.

You are right, but it is more their responsibility to know what is going on with their players and to tell their players the right things, then it is for me to explain a violation of the rules to a coach every time it happens.

All I am saying is that you have to decide what really works for you. I like to be treated a certain way and if I am not, I am not talking to a coach. When they are reasonable, I have no problem talking. When they are acting like they got no sense, I do not want to talk to them. I would rather not talk to a coach that is flying off the handle than give them a T for their behavior if I can. Remember we are not dealing with rational and calm people. And if they do not know how to be that way, I would prefer not to talk to them. What others do is alright with me. You have to do what works for you anyway.

Peace

I like what Jeff Pea said, to add to it I find that when you engage the kid and explain that you need his help. Most of the time, the kids are just excited to be heading into the game and dont' realize what they are doing.

If you clearly have a bad citizen who is intentionally defying you....

Try this... Don't let the kid come into the game at the given deadball. I promise, he will properly report the next time.

Where's you rule backing for this?

Appreciate the feedback jeffpea...that's an excellent suggestion.

Yeah...I like your words....I'm not big on hand holding....the way I grew up EVERYONE is accountable for their own actions.

And I don't ever remember my father yelling at me...but he had my FULL attention....still does!