The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue Apr 13, 2010, 03:21am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 34
Time Out!

As I was reffing a game the other night, a player tried to call for a timeout while standing out of bounds with the ball (after a made basket). In accordance with FIBA rules, I didn't grant the timeout because it has to be called from the bench and the scorer's table has to sound the buzzer, etc.

One of the players for the other team started yelling that because this guy was trying to call for the timeout, that it was a technical foul. As far as I could see there was no technical foul, but rather a five second violation was the only call I could and should make.

After the game I asked the "loud mouth" from the other team why that was supposed to be a technical foul and he said it was due to a delay of the game. What he said still doesn't make sense to me, but I figured I'd ask just to be sure...is there such a thing as a technical foul for trying to call a timeout in an inappropriate manner according to FIBA rules?

Thanks for the help.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Tue Apr 13, 2010, 07:19am
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Toledo, Ohio, U.S.A.
Posts: 7,896
Quote:
Originally Posted by ABC Coach View Post
As I was reffing a game the other night, a player tried to call for a timeout while standing out of bounds with the ball (after a made basket). In accordance with FIBA rules, I didn't grant the timeout because it has to be called from the bench and the scorer's table has to sound the buzzer, etc.

One of the players for the other team started yelling that because this guy was trying to call for the timeout, that it was a technical foul. As far as I could see there was no technical foul, but rather a five second violation was the only call I could and should make.

After the game I asked the "loud mouth" from the other team why that was supposed to be a technical foul and he said it was due to a delay of the game. What he said still doesn't make sense to me, but I figured I'd ask just to be sure...is there such a thing as a technical foul for trying to call a timeout in an inappropriate manner according to FIBA rules?

Thanks for the help.


It is not a TF. Ignore the player's request for a TO, and start a five second count.

MTD, Sr.
__________________
Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Trumbull Co. (Warren, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Ohio Assn. of Basketball Officials
International Assn. of Approved Bkb. Officials
Ohio High School Athletic Association
Toledo, Ohio
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Tue Apr 13, 2010, 10:24am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 302
What is the rationale for the FIBA rule? I don't get why you wouldn't allow a player to call a time out in that situation. Just curious as I've never worked FIBA rules at all.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Tue Apr 13, 2010, 10:33am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 552
Quote:
Originally posted by doubleringer:
What is the rationale for the FIBA rule? I don't get why you wouldn't allow a player to call a time out in that situation. Just curious as I've never worked FIBA rules at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ABC Coach View Post
In accordance with FIBA rules, I didn't grant the timeout because it has to be called from the bench and the scorer's table has to sound the buzzer, etc.
Got it?
__________________
It's not who you know, it's whom you know.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Tue Apr 13, 2010, 11:25am
certified Hot Mom tester
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: only in my own mind, such as it is
Posts: 12,918
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juulie Downs View Post
Got it?
Hey Juulie - I spoke with that spring league assignor and he says he knows you. He also stated he is always looking for female officials (to work games - guys, get your mind out of the gutter). I hope he calls you, assigns you some of these games and teams you up with me.

Guys - if Juulie and I work some games together, we'll be charging an admission fee, but members here would get a discount.
__________________
Yom HaShoah
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Tue Apr 13, 2010, 01:56pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Yorktown Va.
Posts: 142
Send a message via AIM to Upward ref
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Padgett View Post
Hey Juulie - I spoke with that spring league assignor and he says he knows you. He also stated he is always looking for female officials (to work games - guys, get your mind out of the gutter). I hope he calls you, assigns you some of these games and teams you up with me.

Guys - if Juulie and I work some games together, we'll be charging an admission fee, but members here would get a discount.
discount sounds good, does juulie get hazardous duty pay ?
__________________
Upward ref
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Tue Apr 13, 2010, 02:05pm
certified Hot Mom tester
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: only in my own mind, such as it is
Posts: 12,918
Quote:
Originally Posted by Upward ref View Post
discount sounds good, does juulie get hazardous duty pay ?
No, but whenever she works with me, she wears earplugs.
__________________
Yom HaShoah
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Tue Apr 13, 2010, 02:37pm
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juulie Downs View Post
Got it?
Juulie, I think he knows the rule, based on his question, he's wondering what the rationale for the rule is, not the rationale for not granting the TO.
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Tue Apr 13, 2010, 03:18pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: In the offseason.
Posts: 12,196
Quote:
Originally Posted by doubleringer View Post
What is the rationale for the FIBA rule? I don't get why you wouldn't allow a player to call a time out in that situation. Just curious as I've never worked FIBA rules at all.
Unless I'm mistaken about FIBA rules, it is not that you don't allow a player a timeout in that situation...players don't get to call a timeout in any situation.
__________________
Owner/Developer of RefTown.com
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Tue Apr 13, 2010, 04:54pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by ABC Coach View Post
As I was reffing a game the other night, a player tried to call for a timeout while standing out of bounds with the ball (after a made basket). In accordance with FIBA rules, I didn't grant the timeout because it has to be called from the bench and the scorer's table has to sound the buzzer, etc.

One of the players for the other team started yelling that because this guy was trying to call for the timeout, that it was a technical foul. As far as I could see there was no technical foul, but rather a five second violation was the only call I could and should make.

After the game I asked the "loud mouth" from the other team why that was supposed to be a technical foul and he said it was due to a delay of the game. What he said still doesn't make sense to me, but I figured I'd ask just to be sure...is there such a thing as a technical foul for trying to call a timeout in an inappropriate manner according to FIBA rules?

Thanks for the help.
This is not a Technical Foul under FIBA rules. You were correct to ignore the request & continue the 5 second count.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
Unless I'm mistaken about FIBA rules, it is not that you don't allow a player a timeout in that situation...players don't get to call a timeout in any situation.
No player may request and/or be granted a timeout from the floor under FIBA rules. Under FIBA rules a T.O. may only be granted during a dead ball period.

The Head Coach or Assistant Coach may request the T.O.by communicating with the table. The coach may withdraw their request at any time prior to the officials being notified of the request. After the officials have been notified (on the next dead ball expect when the request has been made by the team who had just scored) the team should be granted the T.O.

Rule 4. Art 18 of the FIBA rulebook.

Art. 18 Time-out

18.1 Definition
A time-out is an interruption of the game requested by the coach or assistant coach.
18.2 Rule

18.2.1 Each time-out shall last one (1) minute.

18.2.2 A time-out may be granted during a time-out opportunity.

18.2.3 A time-out opportunity begins when:
• For both teams, the ball becomes dead, the game clock is stopped and the
official has ended his communication with the scorer's table.
• For both teams, the ball becomes dead following a successful last or only free throw.
• For the non-scoring team, a field goal is scored.

18.2.4 A time-out opportunity ends when the ball is at the disposal of a player for a throwin or a first or only free throw.

18.2.5 Two (2) time-outs may be granted to each team at any time during the first half; three (3) at any time during the second half and one (1) during each extra period.

18.2.6 Unused time-outs may not be carried over to the next half or extra period.

18.2.7 A time-out is charged against the team whose coach first made a request unless the time-out is granted following a field goal scored by the opponents and without an infraction having been called.

18.2.8 A time-out shall not be permitted to the scoring team when the game clock is stopped following a successful field goal during the last two (2) minutes of the fourth period or the last two (2) minutes of each extra period unless an official has stopped the game.

18.3 Procedure
18.3.1 Only a coach or assistant coach has the right to request a time-out. He shall establish visual contact with the scorer or he shall go to the scorer’s table and ask clearly for a time-out, making the proper conventional sign with his hands.

18.3.2 A time-out request may be cancelled only before the scorer's signal has sounded for such a request.

18.3.3 The time-out period:
• Begins when an official blows his whistle and gives the time-out signal.
• Ends when the official blows his whistle and beckons the teams back on the
playing court.

18.3.4 As soon as a time-out opportunity begins, the scorer shall sound his signal to notify the officials that a request for a time-out has been made. If a field goal is scored against a team which has requested a time-out, the timer
shall immediately stop the game clock and sound his signal.

18.3.5 During the time-out and during an interval of play before the beginning of the second (2nd), fourth (4th) or each extra period the players may leave the playing court and sit on the team bench and the persons permitted to be in the team bench area may enter the playing court provided the team members remain within the vicinity of their team bench area.

18.3.6 If the request for the time-out is made by either team after the ball is at the disposal of the free-throw shooter for the first or only free throw, the time-out shall be granted if:
• The last or only free throw is successful.
• It is followed by a throw-in at the centre line extended, opposite the scorer’s table.
• A foul is called between free throws. In this case the free throw(s) will be
completed and the time-out will be permitted before the new foul penalty is
administered.
• A foul is called before the ball becomes live after the last or only free throw. In this case the time-out will be permitted before the new foul penalty is administered.
• A violation is called before the ball becomes live after the last or only free
throw. In this case the time-out will be permitted before the throw-in is
administered.

In the event of consecutive sets of free throws and/or possession of the ball
resulting from more than one (1) foul penalty, each set is to be treated separately.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Tue Apr 13, 2010, 05:49pm
certified Hot Mom tester
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: only in my own mind, such as it is
Posts: 12,918
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ref_in_Alberta View Post
Rule 4. Art 18 of the FIBA rulebook.

Art. 18 Time-out

18.1 Definition
A time-out is an interruption of the game requested by the coach or assistant coach.
18.2 Rule

18.2.1 Each time-out shall last one (1) minute.

18.2.2 A time-out may be granted during a time-out opportunity.

18.2.3 A time-out opportunity begins when:
• For both teams, the ball becomes dead, the game clock is stopped and the
official has ended his communication with the scorer's table.
• For both teams, the ball becomes dead following a successful last or only free throw.
• For the non-scoring team, a field goal is scored.

18.2.4 A time-out opportunity ends when the ball is at the disposal of a player for a throwin or a first or only free throw.

18.2.5 Two (2) time-outs may be granted to each team at any time during the first half; three (3) at any time during the second half and one (1) during each extra period.

18.2.6 Unused time-outs may not be carried over to the next half or extra period.

18.2.7 A time-out is charged against the team whose coach first made a request unless the time-out is granted following a field goal scored by the opponents and without an infraction having been called.

18.2.8 A time-out shall not be permitted to the scoring team when the game clock is stopped following a successful field goal during the last two (2) minutes of the fourth period or the last two (2) minutes of each extra period unless an official has stopped the game.

18.3 Procedure
18.3.1 Only a coach or assistant coach has the right to request a time-out. He shall establish visual contact with the scorer or he shall go to the scorer’s table and ask clearly for a time-out, making the proper conventional sign with his hands.

18.3.2 A time-out request may be cancelled only before the scorer's signal has sounded for such a request.

18.3.3 The time-out period:
• Begins when an official blows his whistle and gives the time-out signal.
• Ends when the official blows his whistle and beckons the teams back on the
playing court.

18.3.4 As soon as a time-out opportunity begins, the scorer shall sound his signal to notify the officials that a request for a time-out has been made. If a field goal is scored against a team which has requested a time-out, the timer
shall immediately stop the game clock and sound his signal.

18.3.5 During the time-out and during an interval of play before the beginning of the second (2nd), fourth (4th) or each extra period the players may leave the playing court and sit on the team bench and the persons permitted to be in the team bench area may enter the playing court provided the team members remain within the vicinity of their team bench area.

18.3.6 If the request for the time-out is made by either team after the ball is at the disposal of the free-throw shooter for the first or only free throw, the time-out shall be granted if:
• The last or only free throw is successful.
• It is followed by a throw-in at the centre line extended, opposite the scorer’s table.
• A foul is called between free throws. In this case the free throw(s) will be
completed and the time-out will be permitted before the new foul penalty is
administered.
• A foul is called before the ball becomes live after the last or only free throw. In this case the time-out will be permitted before the new foul penalty is administered.
• A violation is called before the ball becomes live after the last or only free
throw. In this case the time-out will be permitted before the throw-in is
administered.

In the event of consecutive sets of free throws and/or possession of the ball
resulting from more than one (1) foul penalty, each set is to be treated separately.
WOW! Did you translate that from the original French?
__________________
Yom HaShoah
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Tue Apr 13, 2010, 07:40pm
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Toledo, Ohio, U.S.A.
Posts: 7,896
History Lesson Time.

Long before the NCAA added a Women's Committee to the Basketball Rules Committee, women's college (both jr. college and college) basketball was played using the Basketball Rules as written by the National Association of Girls and Women in Sports (NAGWS). And while NAGWS Basketball Rules were primarily taken from the NBCUSC (National Basketball Committee of the United States and Canada, the ancestor of the NFHS and NCAA Rules Committees) Basketball Rules, it also adopted many FIBA Rules, i.e.: (1) a five second count only while holding that ball (which still exists in today's women's rules) and (2) no ten second backcourt count (FIBA has since adopted a ten second backcourt count which has since been changed to an eight second backcourt count).

The one rule that has been a constant in women's college basketball has been that coaches as well as players may request a timeout, in fact it as always been the same rule that was adopted by the NFHS and NCAA Men's committees a few years back. While NAGWS did not adopt the FIBA timeout request rule, it took the NBCUSC concept of players requesting timeouts and also allowed head coaches to request timeouts. And that is the rule that we still have today in women's college basketbal and has been added to boys'/girls' high school and men's college basketball.

MTD, Sr.
__________________
Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Trumbull Co. (Warren, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Ohio Assn. of Basketball Officials
International Assn. of Approved Bkb. Officials
Ohio High School Athletic Association
Toledo, Ohio
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Tue Apr 13, 2010, 07:43pm
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Toledo, Ohio, U.S.A.
Posts: 7,896
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Padgett View Post
WOW! Did you translate that from the original French?

And no, he did not translate it from the original French. In fact, while both English and French are official languages of FIBA, it is my understanding that English is the official language of the FIBA World Championships and the Olympics.

MTD, Sr.
__________________
Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Trumbull Co. (Warren, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Ohio Assn. of Basketball Officials
International Assn. of Approved Bkb. Officials
Ohio High School Athletic Association
Toledo, Ohio
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Tue Apr 13, 2010, 08:43pm
certified Hot Mom tester
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: only in my own mind, such as it is
Posts: 12,918
Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. View Post
the National Association of Girls and Women in Sports (NAGWS).
Are you sure it wasn't just NAGS?
__________________
Yom HaShoah
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Wed Apr 14, 2010, 08:00am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,049
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. View Post
Long before the NCAA added a Women's Committee to the Basketball Rules Committee, women's college (both jr. college and college) basketball was played using the Basketball Rules as written by the National Association of Girls and Women in Sports (NAGWS). And while NAGWS Basketball Rules were primarily taken from the NBCUSC (National Basketball Committee of the United States and Canada, the ancestor of the NFHS and NCAA Rules Committees) Basketball Rules, it also adopted many FIBA Rules, i.e.: (1) a five second count only while holding that ball (which still exists in today's women's rules) and (2) no ten second backcourt count (FIBA has since adopted a ten second backcourt count which has since been changed to an eight second backcourt count).

The one rule that has been a constant in women's college basketball has been that coaches as well as players may request a timeout, in fact it as always been the same rule that was adopted by the NFHS and NCAA Men's committees a few years back. While NAGWS did not adopt the FIBA timeout request rule, it took the NBCUSC concept of players requesting timeouts and also allowed head coaches to request timeouts. And that is the rule that we still have today in women's college basketbal and has been added to boys'/girls' high school and men's college basketball.

MTD, Sr.
Thanks Mark. I've been officiating (FIBA rules mostly) for the last 10 years. It's neat to see how some of these things evolve over time.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Putting Time on the Clock for Requested Time Out CMHCoachNRef Basketball 10 Sun Mar 01, 2009 09:20pm
Long Time Lurker, First Time Poster SoInZebra Basketball 122 Mon Mar 26, 2007 04:10pm
the time displayed as post time is way off chuck chopper General / Off-Topic 2 Wed Mar 29, 2006 02:09pm
Another long time listener, first time caller Fifth And Goal Basketball 11 Wed Feb 25, 2004 10:30am
When is it time to call Time / Dead ball? Deion Softball 1 Tue Jul 01, 2003 11:50am


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:25pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1